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Posted Aug 15, 19 16:37 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Falmouth Way

Ron and I, I believe, have slightly varying interpretations of "Falmouth Way" on the Thatcher newspapers. I believe that it probably means that the paper is to be delivered at a non PO destination between offices on the way to Falmouth. Now Portland.

Posted Aug 15, 19 16:17 by Roland Cipolla (roncipolla)

Newspaper Announcing the End of the Rev War

The announcement of the cessation of hostilities was made in Newburgh, NY 18 April 1783 ......

The scan below (sorry for the quality) is the Boston newspaper dated 1 May 1783 with the announcement of peace. From the article, as Bernard B said, below at noon the following day, 19 April, Washington read the proclamation to his troops at Newburgh NY. NOTE: "An extra ration of liquor to be issued to everyman to-morrow, to drink Perpetual Peace, Indepedency and Happiness to the United States of America."

This newspaper was carried, from Boston to Biddeford District of Maine, by the post rider along the Post Road known as "Falmouth Way." George Thatcher was a member of the Continental Congress and served four terms in the House of Representatives. He was the longest-serving of the original members of the First Congress (1789).

Contemporary peace announcements, especially ones transmitted in the mails, are "nice items."


Posted Aug 15, 19 13:24 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)


The truce was announced to the Army by Washington several days later on April 19 -- (I don't have a date for announcement to the Army in New York). That is a strange ink -- maybe an aged variant of the olive?? Peace announcements are nice things.

Technically, the treaty was allowed to become invalid by a feckless Congress and US news of the definitive acceptance was not until mid-1784. The British were not interested in continuing the contest.

Posted Aug 15, 19 13:20 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Steamboat 25 cents

I think the overland route from Detroit to Genesee was probably a bit over 400 miles (look up Detroit to Buffalo via Cleveland or check old PL&Rs?)

Posted Aug 15, 19 11:53 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Inland waterways mail question

I have just added to PhilaMercury census a 1840 steamboat letter from Detroit to Perry, N.Y., via Buffalo, where it entered the mails. See Cover ID 28357.

It has a 25c collect marking, which puzzles me. On modern highways (via Canada) the distance from Detroit to Buffalo is about 255 miles, skirting around Lake Erie. So the route by water should be no more than that. The postal rate at that time (Act of 1825) was 150 to 400 miles for 18-3/4 cents, over 400 miles for 25c. So this letter (a single letter sheet) should have been charged only 18-3/4 cents, not 25c. Can someone explain why the higher amount was charged?

According to the American Stampless Cover Catalog, Vol. II, under Inland Waterways Markings, p. 130, it states "The rate properly charged for a Steamboat letter was the regular postage from where the letter was picked up (as reported by the master of the vessel) and its final destination."

So that means that the master of the steamboat had to segregate letters according to where he picked them up. For example, if the vessel stopped at Cleveland enroute to Buffalo and picked up mail there, someone had to keep those letters separate from those picked up in Detroit or any other ports. And for his services the master received 2c per letter. And if a passenger wrote a letter onboard the steamer enroute to Buffalo, and handed it to the boat's purser to go with the other outgoing mail, shouldn't such a letter be charged a lesser amount at the Buffalo post office, compared to the others? Any comments would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.


Posted Aug 15, 19 10:09 by george dekornfeld (docgfd)

Movie Prop Stamps

If memory serves, there was a discussion about these here a while ago, and I ended up buying a set. For anyone who hasn't gotten theirs yet, a set is being offered on eBay and its currently at a much less expensive price here.: (RCF - link will be deleted after sale closes)

Posted Aug 14, 19 13:14 by Richard Frajola (frajola)

Post Offices

T - The only regulation I remember as to who has to get post offices is described in 1825 Act, shown in 1832 PO Regs, section 4. That section requires postal service to all court houses.

None that I recall stipulated anything about population.

Posted Aug 14, 19 13:03 by Terence Hines (thines)

Population requirement.

Does anyone here know whether, in the 19th century, there was a specific population requirement before a local would be granted a post office? My guess would be "no" but I'd like better information than just my guess.

Posted Aug 14, 19 12:37 by Richard Frajola (frajola)

David Handleman AR Exhibits

I just added two more exhibits from David's AR project:

Brazil (#16)
France & Colonies (#17)

All are linked from "exhibits" tab.

Thanks David!

Posted Aug 14, 19 6:02 by Russ Ryle (hoosierboy)

re: Fun 1873 to 2019

Morning Leonard and all,

Yep, great history and as old Tom Carnige (sp?) long time announcer at the Indy 500 would say, "a new track record" for unearthing a treasure. 1973 to 2019 is also the span of my marriage. It is the union of two collections of many treasures but I think we have finally got all of the old boxes laid back in the garage that long ago processed.

Posted Aug 13, 19 19:09 by George Tyson (gtyson)

Leonard H:

I really enjoyed seeing that cover. It puts the "history" in postal history.

Posted Aug 13, 19 15:55 by Leonard Hartmann (hartmann)

Fun, 1783 in 2019

Bought at Siegel in 1973, mounted today 2019

Life is Fun, probably should show less of the image and more
of my transcription



Posted Aug 13, 19 11:07 by Larry Bustillo (suburban)

Palo Binders

I realize this is a long shot on the board. Any one here interested in Palo five ring binders with slip cases in like new condition. Contact me off board if interested. (10) available.

Posted Aug 13, 19 8:41 by William T. Crowe (wtcrowe)

Copy of PF certificate

I would suggest you send an e-mail to:

[email protected]

Attach a scan of the stamp in question, tell them what you would like and ask how they would like to proceed.

Posted Aug 12, 19 16:56 by Richard Taschenberg (coverzz)

T'burg Cover

George T - Thanks for your followup. It all seems to fit. I'm not a cross border expert so I thought I'd ask. Interesting insight about payment and accounting.

Posted Aug 12, 19 15:47 by Leonard Hartmann (hartmann)

PF Cert

The PF will most certainly require you to re-submit
for a new cert as they must evaluate exactly what is
in hand


Posted Aug 12, 19 15:45 by Leonard Hartmann (hartmann)

Modern Officials

i have a small accumulations of these, on cover, perhaps
a few mint, i don't think anyting unusual or rare but would be please to sell
at a fair price

please, don't expect a  reply with description and price as i want
to do as a lot and have not seen in 30 years but know exactly the location on
the 2nd floor guest bedroom

reply off line, [email protected]


Posted Aug 12, 19 15:22 by Ray Porter (rporter314)

PF Cert copies

Just bought a stamp which was described as a very rare specimen overprint (for banknote postage dues), which I did not think it was, but if I won it cheap enough I would get an opinion from PF. So I checked PF DB and found it was certified as genuine. The next question was how to get a duplicate copy of cert.

Checked PF site and did not find the info to get a duplicate copy. What did I miss?

Posted Aug 12, 19 12:09 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

Modern Officials


In the late 1980s I had a ten-frame exhibit of them. Many years ago Bill Weiss sold it for me to Lavar Taylor. If he still has it, he's your man.

Posted Aug 12, 19 12:04 by Larry Bustillo (suburban)

Modern Officals

Have a small group of Modern Officials on Registered covers from USPO Easthampton, MA. to Bank of Easthampton. Including some with $5. value. Anyone have an idea of value, if any. Sample attached. Thanks in advance.


Posted Aug 11, 19 23:49 by David Snow (dwsnow)

London transit marking

Winston Williams,

Thank you for your post and proper identification of the backstamp on my cover - much appreciated.

Posted Aug 11, 19 21:15 by Winston Williams (winstonw)

Collins Line steamer Atlantic

David, The British Oct 1 backstamp on your 1855 USA outbound cover carried by the Atlantic was applied in London. The CZ code afik is nothing to do with an exchange office - just a typical time / stamper code that you get on letters passing through / into London.

Posted Aug 11, 19 18:19 by George Tyson (gtyson)

T'burg cover

Admittedly it's not really my area, but when has that stopped me? I agree that the cover was forwarded from the U.S. to Canada and then back again. I think that all of the rate markings indicate the simple fact that 10 cents was due to forward the cover from T'burg to Canada and another 10 cents was due to forward it back. The handstamped 10 cent marking came first and was applied at the U.S. exchange office showing the country of origin and the amount due which was the same in Canadian (decimal system) and U.S. currency. When another 10 cents was due to forward it back, the two 10 cent charges were summed in manuscript, probably in Canada. Another clerk added the Canada 20 cents handstamp to show the country of origin and the rate that was now due. Interesting, according to the April 6, 1851 treaty, Canada never collected any money for its handling of this cover. According to the treaty, the country that collected the amount that was paid or the amount that was due kept all of it. In other words, there was no longer any system of accounting. With regard to the lack of another U.S. handstamp when the cover was returned to T'burg, by this time exchange office markings were being applied inconsistently and were later phased out. And there was no need for a "receipt" marking at T'burg because the cover wasn't going any further. Hopefully, someone with more expertise than me will vet what I just wrote.

Posted Aug 11, 19 16:53 by Richard Taschenberg (coverzz)

Forwarded 1861 10c Envelope

Thanks for the comments. Forwarding address is Canada West. Drummondville backstamp is definitely SP 20 1862 UC, so it definitely went to Trumansburg first. The postmark trail ends in Drummondsville, but that address is also crossed out. I’m assuming that forwarding from Trumansburg to Canada would be 10c due. Is the US 10cts handstamp an exchange office due marking that restated the ms Due 10 below it? Does the CANADA 20cts (and ms 20 Due) indicate an additional 10c due for forwarding back to the US (The Siegel description doesn’t really clarify this). If so, seems like there should be another US datestamp after Sep 20.

Posted Aug 11, 19 14:15 by steven frumkin (sfrumkin)

T'burg Cover

See Siegel Auction 1189 Lot 1080 for a description of this cover.

Posted Aug 11, 19 13:50 by Leonard Piszkiewicz (lenp99)

Forwarded 1861 10c Envelope

Are you sure it was forwarded to Canada West? The Drummondville postmark looks like L.C., not U.C. -- compare the last L in Drummondville to the "L.C." -- both seem to have a tall serif at lower right of the "L."

Posted Aug 11, 19 13:22 by steven frumkin (sfrumkin)

San Francisco Cover


This is a long shot, and I don't mind being completely wrong, but:

Are you absolutely certain that the Drummondville backstamp date is September 30?

I do realize that the Trumansburg address is crossed out but why also is Drummondville?

Is there any possibility that the cover went to Drummondville first and was then forwarded to Tumansburg?

Am currently in Ithaca, just down the road from T'burg, so this cover is kind of topical for me right now. Very nice here today, but wouldn't mind hitting the road for Quebec.

Posted Aug 11, 19 11:49 by William T. Crowe (wtcrowe)


Based on the backstamp the most likely final destination is Drummondville. There is a Drummondville in Quebec, east of Montreal.

Campbell has two listings for Drummondville.

1) "Drurnmondville (Welland-0) 1830/1884--68877 ••• Niagara Falls South later"

2) "Drummondville (Drummond-Q ) 1816/on--34555"

A check of Wikipedia does not associate Welland with Drummondville, so it is possible that the Drummondville east of Montreal was the final destination.

Posted Aug 11, 19 9:52 by Richard Taschenberg (coverzz)

Forwarded 1861 10c Envelope

I’m trying to figure out the final destination of the envelope. It originated in Guaymas, Mexico with magenta marking lower left and “2” (paid) verso. Passed through San Francisco Aug 21, 1862, then on to Trumansburg, NY Sep 17, where it was forwarded to Drummondville, Canada West with ms Due 10. Drummondville UC, Sep 20, 1862 verso. I am unclear what happened from here. Drummondville and Canada West are crossed out with no additional forwarding address. Additional 10c due added. No additional date stamps. Where did this end up? When were the US 10 cts. and CANADA 20 Cts applied. Are both of these due markings? Also, did this go overland from San Francisco, or back down the coast to Panama and across?


Posted Aug 10, 19 16:21 by William Duffney (bill duffney)


My not-so-definitive notes:

“The original county was part of the Plymouth Colony and named after its county seat, what is now Bristol, RI. The newer RI county was formed in 1746.”

“As early as 1720 Colonel John Chandler presented a petition to the general court for the establishment a new county in the south of MA, to be called Worchester.”

Thanks for the responses.

Posted Aug 10, 19 16:05 by William Duffney (bill duffney)

Really 1729

It is CT alright.Those are CT people.

Posted Aug 10, 19 13:42 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Inferior Court

There is a large amount of this southeastern Mass courthouse material in circulation. I believe that may be today's Bristol, R.I. Or it may be someplace near Taunton, Mass. A January, 1729 date may be 1730 on our calender. May well be colonial

Posted Aug 10, 19 13:37 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

A general warning about arrival vs postmark dates

The postmark presumably (not 100% reliable) indicates the date the letter actually left town. Thus an arrival the evening of the first, going out on a weekly route that left to early for the letter to be sent on the first, would reflect the mailing on the 8th, a week after arrival. This would be exceptional, of course, but delays, even if only a day or two, should be kept in mind while searching.

Posted Aug 10, 19 13:32 by Richard Frajola (frajola)


Bill - is it really from CT and not the UK?

Posted Aug 10, 19 13:25 by Farley Katz (navalon)


Inferiour Court

Posted Aug 10, 19 12:56 by William Duffney (bill duffney)


Do I have this correct?

Datelined: December 22, 1729 Woodstock, Connecticut
Destination: County of Bristol, MA, Justices of the Interior Court, which will meet in January 1730
Dispatch: John Chandler, Jr. (son of Colonel John Chandler) and Joseph Wright, both of Woodstock, CT
Rate: None present — presumed to have been carried outside the mails


Posted Aug 9, 19 23:55 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Collins Line steamer Atlantic

Mark Rogers,

Many thanks for correctly identifying the packet ship that carried my letter. Attached is 600 dpi image of the New York Am. Packet Sep 19 exchange office marking which nails it down. Now I can see clearly the "19". Also, it is great that you identified the date "1 OC 1" on the British backstamp, which confirms the 30 Sept. 1855 arrival in Liverpool. That style date had me confused. However, not sure what the "CZ" means in that backstamp, maybe associated with the London exchange office.

Here is updated description of Cover ID 28349 based on your input, which is much appreciated.

Note also that the sender used a wafer seal on the envelope flap. Perhaps he or she didn't trust the new-fangled, so-called "self-sealing" envelope, meaning gummed. Most of the earliest private envelopes I have, from late 1840s to early 1850s, do not have gum on the rear flap, and were meant to be used with the popular wafer seals, usually used to seal folded letters.


Posted Aug 9, 19 23:00 by Rob Faux (robfaux)


Congratulations to Yamil for his Champion of Champions award and also to all who were able to stand at the front as winners of Grand awards during the prior year.

It was good to see several people I knew at the show and to meet others I have only met 'virtually' via the board or email, etc.

And ya, Phil, I think I might finally be realizing that I actually did win a grand...  thanks.


Posted Aug 9, 19 18:56 by Mark Rogers (markrogers)

mystery ship

David, your cover missed the sailing of the Canada on the 12th. Instead it was taken on the Collins line Atlantic, which left NY on Sep 19. Note the date of the Ny transit is Sep 19 (1855). It also says AM packet. Additionally, both the pre-payment of 21c and the 8 decimes due agrees with an American packet having taken it. It is interesting that it appears endorsed for the Canada, but pre-paid more than necessary for that. Maybe the sender knew it would be a close call and paid more just in case.

ps. The Atlantic arrived in Liverpool sep 30. There is a British Oct 1 backstamp, which agrees.

Posted Aug 9, 19 17:47 by David Snow (dwsnow)

mystery solved


Thank you for the information. Now I see that ship in the Cunard sailing tables . . . arrived Liverpool 23 Sept.  I have updated my cover's description in PhilaMercury.

Posted Aug 9, 19 17:19 by Leonard Piszkiewicz (lenp99)

mystery ship

Cunard SS Canada typically sailed from Boston and departed Boston 12 SEP 1855.

Posted Aug 9, 19 17:06 by David Snow (dwsnow)

mystery ship

I am trying to determine the year of this cover in my collection, hopefully by identifying the endorsed ship, which is difficult to read. Because this is a Nesbitt entire it must date from 1853 or later. The name of the ship might be "Canadian", which would be the Allan Line, but that wasn't an American packet line and did not sail from New York nor Boston, as endorsed.

See Cover ID 28349 for details, including partial backstamps.

I looked at the sailing tables in the Hubbard/Winter book, first viewing the American-owned Ocean Line and Collins Line, but none of their ship names remotely resemble the endorsed ship name.

The red 32mm New York Am. Packet (unpaid) exchange office marking is illustrated in "North Atlantic Mail Sailings 1840-75" by Hubbard and Winter, page 353, tracing 4, known between 4 Sep 52 and 20 Dec 56.

If anyone can identify the ship name and line, and hopefully the sailing date, that would be great. Thank you in advance.


Posted Aug 9, 19 13:43 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

Arabian, Gardner

The February 23 arrival report is clipped from the March 3 Baltimore Gazette and Daily Advertiser.

Posted Aug 9, 19 11:38 by Stephen Tedesco (steddy)

Campeche, 1836

Thank you everyone for the help.

I have found the arrivals for Charleston covering a three day period. February 15th is the receiving date on the letter. The clipping shows the brig Fama, Julia, out of Havana for the 15th. The brig Fama was never at New Orleans. Either it was a strait shot or possible via New Orleans to Havana by another ship.

I due know that three arrivals from Campeche to NO fit for the letter to reach Havana and then on to Charleston.

The letter went via cuba as Yamil thought a likely scenario.


Posted Aug 9, 19 10:25 by Leonard Piszkiewicz (lenp99)

Campeche, 1836 -- Arabian, Gardner

Arrived Charleston -- is "Feb. 23" the date of arrival or the date of the news report? Feb. 9th to Feb. 15th for the voyage can still work.

Posted Aug 9, 19 9:18 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Campeche 1836

The info I gave was based on searches of Maryland, Louisiana, South Carolina, and Georgia (and NC I think) looking for Charleston arrivals. I pretty much covered the relevant time for arrival at Charleston, mid Feb to early March papers. Ken's info is of great interest. But if the arrival is truly on the 23d, it would eliminate the Arabian. I thought maybe a ship from Campeche might (only might) stop at Havana. I think there were also sailings from St. John (where?) and Pon Pon (where?).

Posted Aug 9, 19 8:10 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

Arabian, Gardner

Arrived Charleston February 23


Posted Aug 9, 19 8:01 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

Arabian, Gardner

Cleared New Orleans to Charleston February 9


Posted Aug 9, 19 6:28 by John Barwis (jbarwis)

Ship Arabian


I have found that not infrequently one can find sailing data in newspapers other than the port of departure or arrival. About 5-10 percent of all the Cope Line departures and arrivals were found in papers published in Boston, New York, Baltimore, or Washington.

Try searching the papers published in New Orleans and Savannah. If that fails, the try Boston and New York.

Posted Aug 8, 19 21:55 by Yamil Kouri (yamil kouri)

Campeche - NY

Even before Mexico's independence there were frequent communications between Havana and several ports in the Yucatan Peninsula and southern Gulf of Mexico such as Merida, Campeche, Laguna de Terminos, etc.

Beginning in the 1820s there were also frequent sailings between Havana and Charleston.

It is likely that this letter was sent via Cuba.

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