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Posted Oct 16, 18 13:19 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)


The 1920 link in Mike's list doesn't work.


In these references that you asked us to locate, the UPU did not require any markings on letters posted aboard vessels at sea or in foreign coastal waters.

Posted Oct 16, 18 13:15 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Baltimore Way

Bill,   Taking the three possibilities and some sub possibilities: 1)  As you suggest, Baltimore had and used a Steamboat marking,  so steamboat carriage seems very unlikely, 2)  Assuming they still had stagecoaches carrying mail into Baltimore, it would have been subject to the one cent way fee 3)  A route agent cover should have been marked by the route agent -- unless Maybe there was no route agent on some RR coming in, or Maybe Maybe he didn't have time to process it, or Maybe Maybe Maybe he was out and they couldn't get a replacement.  The other speculative possibility --  I need to go back and reread the PL&R to see if there could have been confusion about the  interaction between the unpaid penalty charge and the horsy way fee.   To quote Gunsmoke -- way covers make a man watchful and a little bit lonesome.
I got that fake email also and barely bailed out before I gave them the data they were seeking.  It was a clever thing.  To quote Gunsmoke -- the internet makes a man feel watchful and a little bit like he is in an ordurestorm

Posted Oct 16, 18 11:20 by Gary Loew (garyloew)

Paquebot Subtlety

Ken - As any governmental agency can attest, there is an often painful difference between the passage of a regulation and the details of the implementation. In the case of Paquebots, I am exploring a subtlety involving the use of markings -- or more specifically the lack thereof. The Dovey/Morris book and its Hoskings predecessors all focused primarily on the marcophily of Paquebots. I am focusing on the postal process that qualifies a cover to be considered a Paquebot. Specifically, when a cover lacks the UPU-specified marking, under what circumstances can it still be considered a Paquebot, as opposed to a cover that has the stamps of one country and the cancellation of another for some other, i.e., non-Paquebot reason? Stamps used abroad - a broad category - might be one example of the latter. (Mixed frankings are a whole different matter and one I'm not concerned with here.)

In the early years of the Paquebot service, there are many examples of covers that have the stamps of one country and the cancellation of another. From a postal process standpoint, rather than a philatelic standpoint, when are such covers Paquebots? That is the quest I'm on.

Posted Oct 16, 18 10:48 by Richard Frajola (frajola)

UPU Conventions

Last month Mike Ludeman sent me a compilation of links to the various UPU Conventions. I have now uploaded a revised and expanded version linked from "Articles" page here.

A direct link to the 3p PDF file is here.

Thank you Mike - (& sorry for the delay in uploading to my site).

Posted Oct 16, 18 10:16 by Farley Katz (navalon)

Paquebot - a modern story

An entertaining story is told by Richard Konkolski who sailed around the world in the 1960s and 1970s on his small boat with Czechoslovakian flag, regularly mailing letters and postcards franked with Czech stamps on his arrival in far flung ports. It's here

Posted Oct 16, 18 9:20 by Stephen T. Taylor (UK) (stevetayloruk)


Congratulations to Les Lanphear for winning the Grand at SESCAL, Ontario, CA. Palmares not yet posted to but will send a reminder to them today. Steve

Posted Oct 16, 18 8:19 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)


I fail to see any subtlety. All that the UPU did was to agree that letters posted aboard a vessel on the high seas required postage that corresponded to the ship's flag, and in ports and coastal waters, to postage of the proximate country, either way to be deposited at a post office at the next call.

Posted Oct 15, 18 20:48 by Leonard Hartmann (hartmann)

One Drive

Yep, got one from "Bill Crowe"

To really open i was offered about 5 programs that 
i had to give my id & passwords, etc. etc. 

it had an aroma immediately

a new form of @#$$#%@#


Posted Oct 15, 18 18:26 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)


Searching the Detailed Regulations pages for high seas, I found this in 1891 and nothing more in 1897.


Posted Oct 15, 18 16:14 by Farley Katz (navalon)

UPU 1891 Detailed Regulations

Here's the 1891 Detailed regs, thanks to New South Wales.

Posted Oct 15, 18 16:11 by Mark Schwartz (schwamoo)

E mail hack

Got one from Bill, and also one from Gary Goldstein

Posted Oct 15, 18 15:42 by William T. Crowe (wtcrowe)

Baltimore Way


Nice cover. I have only seen that boxed “6” used on inbound ship letters and Chesapeake Bay steamboat covers. It may have come into Baltimore on a Chesapeake Bay steamer.


Posted Oct 15, 18 15:34 by William T. Crowe (wtcrowe)

Email hack

To all my friends and associates:

If you get a strange e-mail from me, do not open. In my opinion it is a very sophisticated hack as it sends different attachments to different people. A dealer friend got an e-mail offering a collection for sale and told him that if he did not buy it the collection would be offered to Rasdale. An auction house was sent a document with information about good business practices. When you open the e-mail it will show an illustration of “One Drive” which is something I do not use.

My sincere apologies to all for any trouble this may have caused.


Posted Oct 15, 18 15:30 by Farley Katz (navalon)

Detailed Regulations UPU 1897

Here are the Detailed Regulations for the 1897 convention, beginning on page 27

Posted Oct 15, 18 12:03 by Gary Loew (garyloew)

UPU creation of Paquebot regulations - Follow Up Inquiry

I am continuing my research on the formative years of the Seapost Paquebot service in the 1891-1906 period. The UPU, of course, defined and created the Paquebot service.

I have in my possession the UPU 1891 & 1897 Conventions. But I am unable to locate to complete documents. What I am missing is the “DETAILED REGULATIONS FOR THE EXECUTION OF THE CONVENTION” sections. I have that section for the 1906 Convention, but I need to refer to the two predecessor documents.

Can anyone point me to a source where I might be able to download the 1891 & 1897 Detailed Regulations or the complete documents?

By the way, the listing of sources for the Conventions that I received in response to my initial inquiry had one interesting characteristic. There were multiple sources from which the individual Conventions were obtained. Some were the English translations as approved in the US, some the UK versions, and some were side-by-side French/English text. It does not appear as though there is a single archive for all of the complete UPU Conventions, including the Detailed Regulations ancillary material.

Posted Oct 15, 18 10:14 by Charles Hanselmann (southern*patriot)

Alexandria Postmaster Provisional

Thanks Cliff! I learned something new today. Will read Steve's article. Just read Wall's 6 page article in the Chronicle 118 / May 1983 / Vol.35, No.2 / Pg. 83 illustrated as Figure J. Nice!

Posted Oct 15, 18 10:08 by Cliff Alexander (calexander)

Alexandria Postmaster Provisional


I bought the cover. It is a Henry Jarrett fake. Mary Radcliffe and William Speake obtained a marriage license in 1855, well after the period of the provisional. The cover was identified as a fake and illustrated in Philip T. Wall's article on Alexander postmaster provisional stamps published in the May 1983 issue of the Chronicle available on the Classics Society website. Steve Roth wrote an excellent article on Henry Jarrett published in four parts from late 2015 to 2016 in the Collectors Club Philatelist.

Cliff Alexander

Posted Oct 15, 18 1:01 by A. Lavar Taylor (lavart1)

New Acquisitions

I acquired another item, which looked interesting enough that I grabbed it, even though it does not fall within my regular collecting interests.  Below is a cover sent airmail via New Zealand from Sydney, Australia on  October 7, 1940,  to Mrs. E Newald in Cleveland, OH.  It is marked  "Prisoner of War Service".  On the reverse is the name and address of the sender:  "Hans Herbert Reich, No.53389, Compound 2, Hut 27, Camp 7, Eastern Command, Australia."

A bit of research revealed that, at the time this letter was mailed, the internees housed at Camp 7, which was in Hay, were mostly Germans  that had been brought to Australia from the UK on the infamous voyage of the ship Dunera, which left the UK in July and arrived in Australia the following month.    The internees carried on the Dunera had been forced to leave the UK after Churchill  ordered that these Germans be deported to Australia. (Other Germans were deported to Canada.)

Most of the Germans carried on the Dunera were Jewish refugees who were opposed to Hitler.  These refugees were treated horribly while on the Dunera, and the ship's captain was later court martialed for this mistreatment.   The internees arrived in Hay on September 6, 1940, one month before this letter was sent. 

These refugees later became known as the "Dunera Boys."  Many of them went on to distinguished careers. A television movie was made about the Dunera Boys, and several books were written about them.

Using information available on line from the Australian government archives, I I was able to confirm that Mr. Reich was one of the Dunera Boys and that he went on to serve in the Australian Armed Forces.   As of 2016, there was a small number of surviving Dunera Boys.  I do not know if any remain living today.  A treasure trove of infomation about the Dunera Boys is available on line.  I suspect that the letter sent  to Mrs. Newald in Cleveland was part of an effort to let the world know how poorly the Dunera Boys had been treated while on board.


Posted Oct 15, 18 0:13 by A. Lavar Taylor (lavart1)

New Acquisitions

Below is the front of the cover


Posted Oct 15, 18 0:07 by A. Lavar Taylor (lavart1)

New Acquisitions

Went to SESCAL yesterday and had an enjoyable time.  I have a question about a marking on one item I acquired..  It is a solo usage of the 25pf Germania paying a very unusual rate:  registered international printed matter to US.  It was mailed in Berlin on Oct. 18, 1915, and arrived in New York on Nov. 16, 1915. There are no censor markings.

For me, it is a nice addition to my Germania and WWI cover collections.  But I have a question about a marking on the front that appears to have been applied by the New York PO.   I've never seen this marking before and am having a difficult time deciphering what the marking says.  Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.  Below is a close up of the marking. The last two lines appear to say "N.Y. (9) P.O" and then "J.J.S.".  Next I will post a scan of the front of the item.


Posted Oct 14, 18 23:18 by Charles Hanselmann (southern*patriot)

Baltimore Way Due 6 Civil War cover

Nice! I saw that one :)  

Posted Oct 14, 18 22:41 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Rare way rate

Long have I searched.  I think Phillips had an 1856 example around twenty five years ago.
This penalty unpaid rate came in in 1855.  This one is very late, as way markings were rare by 1862 and became almost non existent with the new law in 1863 that eliminated the one cent fee.  It is also the only soldier's way letter that I have seen -- and handstamped signature to boot. 


Posted Oct 14, 18 15:09 by Louis Fiset (louisfiset)

First Snow

Alaskans call the first snow of the season in the mountains "Termination Dust."

Posted Oct 14, 18 8:35 by Russ Ryle (hoosierboy)

re: Exhibiting in general and the 2018 PDR in particular .....

Morning all.

Congratulations to Dan Ryterband for a wonderful exhibit and to all those who showed in the competition. It is obvious why the three way tie for Best in Sow was determined by one vote. Great material and presentation by all.

An unexpected illness kept me from completing my entry but plan on being back in the fray next year. This has given me time to reflect upon why I exhibit. Before I go further I would like to hear from others as to why they exhibit.

It will be interesting to see the variety of answers this question elicits.

Best regards, Russ Ryle

Posted Oct 14, 18 8:04 by Charles Hanselmann (southern*patriot)


Thanks for the info Bernard! This was ebay 362451949363. I thought I had missed something :)

Posted Oct 13, 18 22:48 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)


1) It has been pointed out to me that the date corresponds to 1849 (or 1855).  Use after July 1, 1847 unlikely
2) The CDS at left appears to have an "S" in the town name, which can not be Alexandria.
3) I am moderately certain that the CDS also has a "PAID" included, which helps explain the lack of a rate marking (presumably this went as printed matter -- status of flap would add more light to this point).
4)  Irrelevant to this -- I own the two (unlisted) examples of Alexandria provisional postal stationery -- they don't look anything like this.

Posted Oct 13, 18 21:45 by Terence Hines (thines)

GB shilling cover.

Philip and Chip - thank you for your help with the GB cover.

Posted Oct 13, 18 18:08 by Charles Hanselmann (southern*patriot)

ALEXANDRIA * PAID 5 * POST OFFICE handstamped cover

Does anyone know what this is? Looks bogus. Any thoughts? Thanks!


Posted Oct 13, 18 12:36 by Philip Quirk (flip138)

GB shilling cover, Castle Street

The London PO looks like Castle Street, Leicester Square, with the last words abbreviated to something like LEIC. SQ.


Posted Oct 13, 18 10:56 by Richard Coffey (rcoffey)

France to U.S. 1865

I have a couple of questions about a relatively common cover. France to the U.S. 1865, rated under the U.S./French postal convention of 1857. The cover’s story begins on November 13, 1865 when it entered the mails in Marseilles with two 40 centime adhesives and a grid cancel with gros chiffres 2240 (Marseilles). On the 14th the cover arrived in Paris on a day train (octagonal center circle on the railway post office backstamp, MARSEILLE A PARIS 14 NOV 65). At this point I presume that the U.S. mails were either made up in Paris or on board a train to Calais, and I further assume that the closed bag was sent directly from Calais to Queenstown where on the 16th of November it was put aboard the Inman Line’s City of Baltimore, which arrived at New York on November 29. The NY Exchange Office mark, however, looks to me like 28. Under the 1857 convention, 80 centimes would seem to divide thus: Inland France: 21 centimes (4¢ U.S). Calais-Queenstown: 11centimes (2¢ U.S.) Transatlantic: 32 centimes (6¢ U.S.) Inland U.S.: 16 centimes (3¢ U.S.). Total: 80 centimes (15¢ U.S.) There is a 9¢ credit to the U.S. on the right side of the NY mark—submerged in the mushy strike. (6¢ for the American packet, City of Baltimore; and 3¢ for U.S. inland). The exchange mark looks to me like Winter’s #44, page 355. Questions: Were the U.S. mails made up in Paris or on the train from Paris to Calais? Did the closed U.S. mailbag then go directly from Calais to Queenstown (by what conveyance?) or did the mailbag transit England and go aboard The City of Baltimore at Liverpool? (There are no Br. transit marks, front or back). And finally, the boat. The NY Exchange Office mark is blurred but I’m almost positive that it reads, Am Pkt, which leaves me with Inman’s City of Baltimore though the steamer’s arrival date is the 29th of Nov. I’m missing “the boat” I think. And . . . below the manuscript “New” and above “Etats” on the cover there is a short blue crayon line with a “O” on one end. The board has talked about this mark in the past, but I’ve forgotten. Can anyone help?


Posted Oct 13, 18 9:40 by Chip Gliedman (cgliedman)

GB Cover

Old Castle Street is in E1 postal district

Probably something like that, though it is a different style of marking that I'm used to seeing for receiving office handstamps.

Posted Oct 13, 18 8:20 by Victor Kuil (vickuil)

RE: Search for Weiss' book

The NYFM book by Bill Weiss is still the best book around on the subject. But keep in mind that it was published 28 years ago. Since then numerous NYFM covers have been found that were not listed in the book. Even new NYFM cancels were discovered. But if one wants to study/collect NYFM material the book is a good start.

The book is sometimes offered on or as second hand book but presently unavailable there. But keep looking.

Posted Oct 13, 18 1:09 by steven frumkin (sfrumkin)

P.S. (Dec. 7, 1941 Cover)

In the earlier posting, I forgot to mention two more factors, the second one of paramount importance:

Clear cartalogue illustration of appropriate size to emphasize the item's importance and attract attention, accompanied by a concise and knowlegeable description.

Posted Oct 12, 18 21:23 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

British Shilling Cover

Castle S(ain)t -----------?   (rather than S(tree)t)  On second thought, I don't find a Saint, so maybe a street.   Is "12" London?  Possibly London postal station.

Posted Oct 12, 18 20:33 by Terence Hines (thines)

British shilling cover

Many thanks Chip. That is very helpful. Can you, or anyone, make out the grey straight line mark on the reverse?

Posted Oct 12, 18 19:28 by Chip Gliedman (cgliedman)

Shilling to US cover

London, Sept 2, 1858 backstamp
London cancellation on Shilling stamp
Liverpool September 3 transit datestamp
Liverpool 5 cents credit to the US for internal US delivery
(24 cents = 1 Shilling = 1/2 oz GB to US postage split 3c for GB inland service; 16c for transatlantic carriage; 5c for US inland service)
Arrived Boston where British Packer, Paid 24 datestamp applied.

Don't have my references to look up the ship, but I'm sure that someone will be able to let you know which Cunard ship carried it from Sept 3 to Sept 17

Posted Oct 12, 18 19:14 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

1861 letter sheet

Paul's cryptic comment leads me to correct my own.  One of those back stamps is reversed and is a partial offset.  The other is out of register and not reversed.  If it is also not embossed, then it probably is a double offset.  That would be very cool, if it is the case.

I am not sure -- is that this is technically printers waste or not?  Do dirty beds count.
Perhaps it would be clearer to say offset offset, rather than double offset.

Posted Oct 12, 18 19:06 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Dream Cover

When I mentioned the joy of finding dream covers the other day, I had this in mind. This departed Falmouth on the last North Atlantic sailing mail packet, the Opposum,  from that  port, ending a service begun in 1755.  Small ships, sometimes on wild seas for several months.  And sometimes hunted.  After it left, the first regular sailing of the new Liverpool steamboat service -- westbound 14 days or so was typical.  The Brittania caught up to the Opposum (I haven't considered if the HFX-Bo Cunarder was already retired) and carried its mails on the last leg to Boston.  A wonderful transitional cover showing both services.


Posted Oct 12, 18 18:24 by Terence Hines (thines)

And the reverse.

Here is the reverse of the cover.


Posted Oct 12, 18 18:21 by Terence Hines (thines)

Help please.

19th century transatlantic mail is certainly not my area of expertise! I would very much appreciate it if anyone could explain the various markings on this cover to me.

Thanks in advance.


Posted Oct 12, 18 17:58 by steven frumkin (sfrumkin)

Dec. 7, 1941 Cover

This lends support to the notion that a good cover that's difficult to value but has upside potential, should be sold in a good public auction rather than, for example, on ebay.

Am only at Sescal on this one day, but I love working in this venue just as much as last year. Weather is beautiful outside, atmosphere inside is actually peaceful, and pace is measured and sane. Far and away the best hotel breakfast buffet I've ever seen, and as the evil movie producer says in The Godfaher, I've had 'em all over the world.

Large amount of material on offer here, but almost entirely stamps. Have only bought four small covers so far. Looks like the auction will dominate the weekend.

Posted Oct 12, 18 16:01 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

December 7 1941

Today at the Sescal sale, Schuyler Rumsey sold this December 7, 1941, 11 AM, Honokaa, Hawaii (about 175 miles away from Pearl Harbor), cover for a hammer price of $3,500 plus 15 percent buyer's premium, $4,000+ to the winning bidder.

The description quoted part of the greeting card message: "I wish you had come to Hawaii when you planned. I really wouldn't advise any one to come now, I shall hope for a visit from you when the war is over. I'm not afraid to be here but I'd hate an ocean voyage if war really comes…"


Posted Oct 12, 18 11:00 by Craig Selig (craigselig)

Search for Weiss' book : NYFM cancellations

I have a collector who would like to purchase the Weiss book : Foreign Mail Cancellations of New York City. Would anyone have a copy to spare that they would be willing to sell? (The customer would like the book itself, not the CD version of the book.) Thank You. Craig Selig, [email protected], 260-749-4995.

Posted Oct 12, 18 9:57 by Paul Dessau ([email protected])

1861 postal letter sheet

My pleasure----Just my guess-it does look like you have the equivalent of a "printed on both sides" variety that occurs in adhesive stamps, when printers waste, with a blank side, is used to print normal stamps. You are lucky to have it.

Posted Oct 12, 18 1:48 by David Snow (dwsnow)

1861 postal letter sheet

Paul Dessau and Bernard Biales,

Thanks for your insightful comments on the printing error (manufacturing fault) on the inside of the indicium of my U36 letter sheet.

Posted Oct 12, 18 0:16 by Richard Drews (bear427)

word game

surety Ahmednuggur   US 1861-68


Posted Oct 11, 18 23:45 by Guy Purington (barkingwolf)

Sheryll's PDR Word Game

malicious Cambridgeport __ RFD Mailboxes

Great Idea .....

and congratulations, Dan, a beautiful exhibit !

and thanks again to Richard for hosting another PDR.

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