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Posted May 20, 19 21:11 by Chip Gliedman (cgliedman)

American Stampless Cover Catalog - listening session

Hi all. As many of you may have learned, I'm on the hook to try to bring Van's work on the ASCC to fruition. I'm honored that some people I respect greatly think that I'm up to the task.

Right now, I'm working up a plan to get the next edition of the catalog to completion. For some background:

Van has done yeoman work to date recruiting state editors and contributors. I have received files with about 12,000 image files of stampless covers and markings (not in any particular standard format or naming convention). These, as well as the text listings need to be organized into a searchable and printable database. The scope, format, technology, and work involved in getting the online and printable versions needs to be finalized so that the "work" can start on image processing, database loading, and report generation can begin.

I'm going to be in Stockholm next week and would like to propose that anyone interested in the Stampless Cover Catalog get together and bounce ideas for it around. I certainly don't have all the answers - in fact, I'm not sure I have all the questions.

If you ping me through the board, I'll send you my contact info and will let you know on Tuesday or so when and were it looks as though we can meet.

If Stockholm doesn't work for you, ping me anyway and I hope that we'll be able to speak on the phone so I gather whatever input you might have to make this happen and to be the most usable for you.

Thanks. Chip Gliedman

Posted May 20, 19 16:48 by David D'Alessandris (davidd)

One more try - printed matter to/from CA prior to 7/1/1851

I didn't get any response to my prior request, so I'll try one more time.  I'm looking for images of printed matter carried by the USPOD to or from California/Oregon prior to 7/1/1851.  I know there aren't many in existence, but I'm not having any luck tracking them down. 

Posted May 20, 19 3:18 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Consignee Transatlantic

Bill Duffney,

Thanks for providing the detailed information about your 1847 Consignee covers from New York. And the bit about the family of Jonathan Pim one hundred years later was a nice bonus.

Posted May 20, 19 0:45 by Steven Chiknas (chiknas1)

Berlin city post envelope

Could use a little help from a German area collector. Are these Berlin city post envelopes common or scarce? Couldn't find anything comparable on the net to make a determination. Thanks.

Image

Posted May 19, 19 8:06 by William Duffney (bill duffney)

Consignee Transatlantic — Unnecessary Coincidental Background Note

The family of one of the addressees, Jonathan Pim, had a very successful department store on South Great George Street in Dublin. Much later in time they added a stamp department.

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Posted May 19, 19 7:32 by William Duffney (bill duffney)

Transatlantic Consignee Mail

Info added to previous postings.

Image

Posted May 19, 19 3:56 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Transatlantic Consignee Mail

Bill Duffney: Thanks for posting your three Consignee covers to Dublin, Ireland. I like the "Liverpool Exempt Ship" markings, and the packet ship directives. Please tell me what is the originating city (New York, perhaps?) and dates of your covers.

David Handelman: Thank you for sharing your exhibit pages showing Consignee Mail to Quebec and Prince Edward Island. Great items with neat write-ups.

Bernard Biales: Thanks for sharing your thoughts on whether postage charges were actually made on incoming Consignee Mail that was deposited in U.S. post offices. I encourage you to post any such covers from your collection. It would be great to see them. As on the covers that Bill D. and David H. posted, it is nice when letters are identified as such by a directive.

Posted May 19, 19 3:28 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Jamaica Post Offices

Chuck C. and David Benson,

Thank you for your posts with information and images about Myrtle Bank Hotel and Lascelles, Jamaica post offices. I had mistakenly thought that the postmarks on my Consignee Letter were private markings. Glad that you both set me straight. The extensive listing of Jamaica post offices and years established that you provided, David, was particularly helpful. And I appreciate, Chuck, your listing the reference books about Jamaica postal history.

So I decided to check my collection and was pleasantly surprised to find that I have some Jamaica stamps with the same style 28-29 mm  double-rimmed postmark as on my Consignee Letter. Below is image. The top stamp is postmarked from Salt Gut Ap 25 38, the next one is from either Dry Harbour or Old Harbour De 31, next is Kingston Au 29 35, and one at bottom is Montego Bay Fe 4 56.

And similar to the postmarks from Lascelles and Myrtle Bank on my cover, the stamp with Harbour in the postmark is missing the year date.

All of this confirms that my Consignee Letter, although privately carried as part of a shipment by ship from the Cayman Islands into Jamaica, did enter the Jamaica postal system.

Image

Posted May 18, 19 18:35 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Consignee letters -- to pay or not to pay, that is the question

The USA rule for these things, when taken to the PO for delivery out of the post office, is ambiguous.  There is some suggestion that at Boston, sometimes no charge was made for this service.  And maybe also on steamboat letters at New Orleans.  I have some material on this but have not put it together systematically to compare the rated and unrated covers.

Posted May 18, 19 14:43 by David Handelman (davidh)

consignee letters, UK to Canada

A couple of them are shown in my Canada--UK exhibit, pages 29--30 (or 22--23) of http://www.rfrajola.com/mercury/DHE1.pdf on Richard's site. They are difficult to find to Canada (especially PEI).

Posted May 18, 19 13:11 by William Duffney (bill duffney)

Consignee Transatlantic

A third —

29 April 1847 — datelined New York from the Office of the Quaker Irish Relief Standing Committee to the Dublin CRC. This letter was endorsed Consignees and Packet Ship Siddons via Liverpool and was handed directly to the ship purser.

30 April 1847 — The Quaker owned Siddons embarked from New York on this date.

29 May 1847 — stamped on arrival at Liverpool with LIVERPOOL/EXEMPT SHIP (Tabeart Type EXSL1, in use 1840-1864) marking. The manuscript 4 postage due is the reduced rate of 2d for the Master’s gratuity plus 2d for double rate postage from Liverpool to Dublin. Under 3/4 Victoria C96 para 35, ‘Consignees’ letters paid no Ship Letter rate, and no Inland Rate if addressed to the port of entry. The Post Office was allowed to recover the cost of the Master’s gratuity and could charge Inland Postage at the prepaid rate if addressed elsewhere. On the reverse is a Type S16 truncated box 29 MY 1847/LIVERPOOL/SHIP handstamp.

30 May 1847 — crossed the Irish Sea via smaller vessel, an orange-red 27mm 8/MY 30/C Dublin backstamp was added.

Image

Posted May 18, 19 12:54 by William Duffney (bill duffney)

Consignee Transatlantic

Two from my collection.

15 October 1847 — datelined New York from the office of the GRC to the Central Relief Committee in Dublin. The letter is endorsed Consignees and Packet Ship Cambridge. A duplicate of this letter was sent via the steamer Hibernia, which incidentally was owned by the Quaker Pim family of merchants.

11 November 1847 — arrived at Liverpool where a black Type S16 truncated box 11 NO 1847/LIVERPOOL/SHIP handstamp was applied to the reverse. The very rare LIVERPOOL/EXEMPT (Tabeart Type EXSL 1, in use 1840-1864) marking was struck on the front. Along with it is the equally as rare large script 3 postage due handstamp, which represents the reduced rate of 2d for the Master’s gratuity plus 1d for postage from Liverpool to Dublin. Under 3/4 Victoria C96 para 35, consignees letters paid no Ship Letter rate, and no Inland Rate if addressed to the port of entry. The Post Office was allowed to recover the cost of the master’s gratuity and could charge Inland Postage at the prepaid rate if addressed elsewhere.

12 November 1847 — crossed the Irish Sea via smaller vessel to Dublin where an orange-red 27mm 8/NO 12/1847/C arrival backstamp was added.

Image

Posted May 18, 19 12:44 by William Duffney (bill duffney)

Consignee Transatlantic

Two from my collection.

30 March 1847 — The Packet Ship Europe cleared from New York on this date. This letter, from the Office of the Quaker Irish Relief Standing Committee to the Dublin CRC was endorsed Consignees and Packet Ship Europe, then was handed directly to the ship purser.

26 April 1847 — stamped on arrival at Liverpool with the scarce/rare LIVERPOOL/EXEMPT ship (Tabeart Type EXSL1, in use 1840-1864) marking. The manuscript 4 postage due is the reduced rate of 2d for the Master’s gratuity plus 2d for double rate postage from Liverpool to Dublin. Under 3/4 Victoria C96 para 35, ‘consignees’ letters paid no Ship Letter rate, and no Inland Rate if addressed to the port of entry. The Post Office was allowed to recover the cost of the Master’s gratuity and could charge Inland Postage at the prepaid rate if addressed elsewhere. On the reverse is a Type S16 truncated box 26 AP 1847/LIVERPOOL/SHIP handstamp.

27 April 1847 — crossed the Irish Sea via smaller vessel, an orange-red 27mm 2/AP 27/F(?) Dublin backstamp was added.

Image

Posted May 18, 19 3:28 by Charles E. Cwiakala (cecwiakala@aol.com)

Lascelles, Jamaica, P.O. - Additional Details ...

According to the Aguilar handbook referenced previously, the Lascelles P.O. opened 12th December 1921 using a TRD similar to, but shorter than, the one employed by the Myrtle Bank Hotel. The original Lascelles TRD was recorded as being used at the time of the report during 6th January-5th May 1922. A second Lascelles TRD, now a large framed oblong, began its use later in the 1920s. For those not familiar with Jamaican (and other British Caribbean areas) TRDs, they deteriorate rapidly from the stamping ink used, having a lifetime proportional to the number times that they were used. BTW: the traditional bible of Jamaica postal history, "JAMAICA: Its Postal History, Postage Stamps & Postmarks" (Stanley Gibbons, 1928), and the updating "JAMAICA: The Postal History, 1672-1860 (Robson Lowe Ltd., 1968), add nothing to what already has been offered.

Posted May 18, 19 2:18 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

humidity

Actually, low humidity is consisdered nonoptimal.  Around 70% is best.  What is really emphasized is constant humidity.   I have never seen an explanation of that.  My pure speculation is that variations cause minute dimensional changes that wear at the fibers and cause disintergration over time.  Of course humidity too high is especially dangerous.  On the other hand, when you see a six hundred yeaar old piece of Italian or Chinese paper  maybe it is not too fussy.

Posted May 18, 19 1:48 by David Benson (dbenson)

Lascelles, Jamaice

According to British Commonmwealth Postmarks by Robert Cragg.

Lascelles, Kingston Post Office was opened in 1921,

http://pbbooks.com/cr71.htm

David B.

Posted May 18, 19 0:43 by Charles E. Cwiakala (cecwiakala@aol.com)

Myrtle Bank Hotel, Kingston, Jamaica ...

The 1918 reconstructed and WWII then-current era hotel that housed British, American and Australian (and other nation's officers?) military personnel   ...

Image

Posted May 18, 19 0:42 by Charles E. Cwiakala (cecwiakala@aol.com)

Myrtle Bank Hotel, Kingston, Jamaica ...

The 1890 rebuilt hotel, constructed for the 1891 Jamaica "Great International Exhibition"   ...

Image

Posted May 18, 19 0:39 by Charles E. Cwiakala (cecwiakala@aol.com)

Myrtle Bank Hotel, Kingston, Jamaica ...

The 1870 original "hotel and sanitarium"   ...

Image

Posted May 18, 19 0:33 by Charles E. Cwiakala (cecwiakala@aol.com)

Myrtle Bank Hotel, Kingston, Jamaica ...

Similar to it's Swiss counterparts, the Myrtle Bank had its very own Post Office in the early 1900's for the convenience of their guests. Posted at that office, the mails were stamped wth a unique purple ink TRD (Temporary Rubber Datestamp), mostly addressed on picture postcards to the U.S.A. and U.K., that are much sought by Jamaica collectors. The image is from "The Philatelic Handbook of Jamaica", Everard F. Aguilar, 1949.

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Posted May 17, 19 23:55 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Fiji

Ken: Thanks for information. What you say makes sense.

And your Linn's article discussing Consignee Letters was most helpful.

Posted May 17, 19 23:06 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

Fiji

Is not a consignee letter. It might be an overpaid or underpaid paquebot letter.

Posted May 17, 19 23:03 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Myrtle Bank Hotel

Here is the history of the Myrtle Bank Hotel, Kingston, Jamaica, where Ensign Hawkins could be found:

Built in the mid-1800s, the Myrtle Bank, owned by Scotsman James Gall, was converted from a shipyard into a select boarding house and offered personal advice on health issues. By 1875 when downtown Christmas Bazaars became popular and drew large crowds, the Myrtle Bank became a recreational and social center. A music stand was erected in the center of its tropical garden and The West India Regiment Band entertained large crowds twice a week. When Gall died the property was acquired by the government and a modern hotel with long French windows that opened on all sides into verandahs, was built on the site in preparation for the Great Exhibition of 1891. It was destroyed in the 1907 earthquake, reconstructed in 1918 and sold to the United Fruit Company. At that time it was the largest hotel in Jamaica with 205 rooms and a filtered salt water pool. See link for photos.

Posted May 17, 19 22:44 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Consignee Mail to Kingston, Jamaica

Here is the back of that Consignee cover to Jamaica.

The cover, sent in 1943 or later, was addressed to a Ensign Hawkins, U.S. Navy, at the Myrtle Bank Hotel in Kingston Jamaica. The marking on the back, "Myrtle Bank, Jamaica Fe 10" also appears to be a private marking. I find no record of a post office by that name in Jamaica. Which leads me to believe this cover was handled entirely out of the mails, in accordance to what Ken Lawrence wrote about such Consignee mail. And I suppose the 1½d postage affixed in stamps (uncanceled) was the international rate between the Cayman Islands and Jamaica.

Image

Posted May 17, 19 22:37 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Consignee Mail

This is the only example I have of Consignee Mail in my collection. In this case bearing 1½d total postage from Cayman Islands to Kingston, Jamaica. The Cayman Islands are in the Carribbean Sea, about 200 miles NW of Jamaica. The ½d stamps are perf. 14, thus issued in 1943.

The marking at front is "Lascelles, Jamaica Fe 9". As far as I can tell, this was a private company in Kingston, still in existence. I find no record of a post office by that name in Jamaica. Next I will post the back, which shows a different private marking.

Ken Lawrence posted on this Board, on March 1st, information about Consignee Letters. Here are some excerpts taken from his 2015 article published in Linn's:

Consignee letters,

which pertained only to the vessel or the consignment, went directly aboard foreign-bound vessels without passing through a post office.

With one exception, U.S. postal laws and regulations required all U.S. mails carried by foreign vessels to be deposited at a post office and processed according to standard procedures. The exception was consignee mail, sealed letters relating to such vessel or any part of the cargo thereof as may be directed to the owners or consignees of the vessel, which could be loaded directly aboard the ship along with the related cargo.

Consignee mail was subject to postage charges whether addressed to any person in the U.S. or elsewhere. It was another foreign equivalent of letters carried out of the mails by private couriers and express companies, with the required postage rated as international mail rather than domestic mail.

Image

Posted May 17, 19 21:29 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Fiji postal history

While researching the cover to Suva, Fiji, I found online a very informative descriptive booklet about Fiji Stamps and Postal History published by the Royal Philatelic Society, London in 2017. One of the covers shown on the title page has the same style Suva postmark as the cover I showed.  See link

Posted May 17, 19 21:16 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Consignee mail

This unusual postal entire was offered to me by a British dealer at a recent show. There are no markings on the back. I did not buy it but was able to obtain a photocopy. From the description it is identified as a scarce example of "Consignee" mail from Suva, Fiji. What I don't understand is why it is franked with 3c postage, which is neither the U.S. domestic rate (2c) at the time, nor the UPU rate (5c). Fiji joined the UPU in 1891.

I suspect it is merely a convenience use, rather than Consignee mail. Similar to if a German tourist used a German postal entire dropped off at the Suva post office, locally addressed. But the foreign postage, such as this, was not valid in Fiji. Or maybe this cover is a type of paquebot usage, if the ship bringing it to Fiji was of U.S. registry, in which case the foreign postage was accepted.

If someone could comment on this unusual use, it would be appreciated. Thank you.

By the way, Tony Eastgate was a noted British collector of Fiji postal history. In 1996 he exhibited 12 frames of Fiji postal history at the Royal Philatelic Society in London.

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Posted May 17, 19 13:02 by Rainer Fuchs (rainer)

Stockholmia 2019

My wife and me wll be there from 26 May till 3. June.

Will attend the Vernissage (28th. May) Stockholmia Club Dinner (29th May)  as well as Palmares (1st. June), the other days, better said evenings, we are free...

Posted May 17, 19 11:48 by Hugh Feldman (feldman)

Stockholmia 2019

Dear fellow board followers,

I notice that a number of us are attending Stockholmia 2019 at the end of this month. If any of you are interested in getting together on one of the evenings which do not have formal events then let me know and I will try to arrange something.

Hugh Feldman

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