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Posted Jul 18, 18 15:50 by Leonard Hartmann (hartmann)

Mailer's Permit Postmark

I have not gone into the interpretation of this way of paying
postage but it is not the traditional Precancel

These stamps were all mint and cancelled at the time of mailing

If i, with no special permit, would put these stamps on a letter or package 
to pay postage they would be accepted

I still have this RARE modern item !


Posted Jul 18, 18 15:10 by David Kent (davekent)

Mailer's Permit Postmark

Stamps canceled with a Mailer's Permit Postmark are not "precanceled." A Precancel is a stamp to which a marking (usually the town name) was applied by the Post Office before the stamp was sold to the permit user. The term is actually obsolete because such imprinted stamps are no longer offered. They have been functionally replaced by stamps inscribed "Presorted," "Nonprofit" and similar phrases, which are often called Junk Mail stamps. Such stamps have no stated postage value and are merely "receipts" showing that the appropriate postage has been paid in cash (actually from an advance deposit account). That postage is determined by a very complex formula based on the size and weight of the piece, the number of items mailed, degree of presorting, multi-digit ZIP Codes, type of barcoding, and other factors. Bulk business mail isn't simple any more.

Posted Jul 18, 18 11:30 by Roland Cipolla (roncipolla)

Mailer's Postmark Permit

Leonard's post below got me excited ...... for a moment. Thought we had found an efficient method to use all of the tons of mint postage ..... but maybe not.

I looked at the USPS website and found the following:


604b Quick Service Guide Precanceled Stamps Overview (604.3.0)

"Use of precanceled stamps is an optional payment method for mailings at Presorted and automation First-Class Mail and all USPS Marketing Mail prices. Precanceled stamps may not be used with any Package Services pieces. This payment method requires the stamps to be affixed to each piece."

Question: Apparently, on Leonard's example, it appears the stamps enclosed in the plastic envelope meets the "affixed to each piece" requirement.

Any thoughts either way?

Posted Jul 18, 18 7:45 by Richard Frajola (frajola)

Salem MA cover

Douglas - I would tell your friend that he should not remove the stamp from the cover but also tell him that the stamp value, if a triple frameline variety, would exceed any value of the cover and that the values would rarely be additive. Maybe a slight premium on cover.

Posted Jul 17, 18 20:46 by Douglas Chapman (foodrev)

SC #26 on cover value inquiry

I have a friend who has asked me to inquire if SC#26 -- the so=called "triple-frame-line" variety has more worth on cover.

He sent this cover off to APS in 2015 and got the stamp certified as a Genuine #26.

I told him I would inquire on this board if anyone thought on-cover usage would add to value.

Thanks to all.


Posted Jul 16, 18 18:04 by Ross Towle (rosstowle)

Die sinkers

I am looking for information about the die sinker Hass (first name unknown) operating in 1904 around NYC.  Also information about the company Lamasine & Farington operating in 1907 around NYC.  Probably also a die engraving company. 

Both Hass and Lamsine & Farington engraved dies used for Chilean postal stationery.


Posted Jul 16, 18 11:32 by Leonard Hartmann (hartmann)

A Novel Idea

We all have a quantity of low value mint postage; to use on a letter or package is difficult to impossible

A package arrived today with postage paid per the attached image

Besides this being a way to use the stamps it  provides used copies in decent condition for new collectors

Also note the Flat Rate Box is not always the most economical postage

Bids accepted on this rare package fragment.

Buy a book today and support your local literature dealer,



Posted Jul 16, 18 8:56 by Russ Ryle (hoosierboy)

Registered Mail "Take Out"

Morning David and all,

Do you want a hot apple turnover with your take out order :)?

It appears a delivery was attempted on February 6 based on the date lower left. At that time a notice the letter was being held at the post office would have been left in box 1104 for Mr. Adams and the item filed as being held for future delivery at the San Jose post office. It was also marked "Take Out" and dated Feb 14. That is the date the clerk reviewing the held mail would know this item should be returned to its sender as undelivered.

We would need to see a scan of the markings on the back side of this item to verify its travels further. Can you post one, please.

Best regards, Russ Ryle

Posted Jul 15, 18 22:54 by David Kent (davekent)

Registered Mail "Take Out"

A friend sent this scan of this registered cover marked "Take Out." He ask what that means, and I'll admit I don't know. The marking appears to be dated somewhat after the other marking and I wonder if it means that the cover was to be returned unclaimed. Any help would be appreciated.


Posted Jul 15, 18 20:36 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)


Lavar -- a bit of a slog -- but usually doable from the Winter Hubbard book by checking departures and arrivals via American packet for 1853 into, I would gues the 60s. Mid to late 50s is certainly reasonable as a start. The data is available, in updated form, on the USPCS site.

Posted Jul 15, 18 20:23 by A. Lavar Taylor (lavart1)

POW Letter

Here is page 2 of the letter


Posted Jul 15, 18 20:21 by A. Lavar Taylor (lavart1)

POW Letter

Here is page 1 of the letter.  Of particular interest is the fact that it mentions the date on which US troops took over the camp, November 9, 1918. The US commandant of the camp was Lt. Col. Morrow, of the 27th Infantry. He vastly improved the conditions at the camp, to the point where many of the 2,000 prisoners volunteered to fight with US troops without pay when the 27th Infantry was  reassigned to a different location.


Posted Jul 15, 18 20:16 by A. Lavar Taylor (lavart1)

Another Interesting Item

Thanks, Richard F and Richard C.  While researching this cover, I discovered that the Argentine flag flew over Monterey for a short time in 1818.  A short-lived invasion by Hipolito Bouchard, who was quite the adventurer.  I wonder if any philatelic evidence of this "invastion" survives?

Below is another interesting item. (I have this bad habit of picking up items that are outside of my normal collecting areas if I find them interesting.)  It is a cover sent by a German POW held in the  POW camp at Krasnaya-Retchka, in Siberia, to Toledo, Ohio in May of 1919, while US troops were in charge of that particular camp.  The pointing hand markings indicate that this cover was returned to the sender as unclaimed.  The reverse (not scanned) has a Toledo CDS dated December 6, 1919, but nothing else.

What makes this item really interesting is the letter that was enclosed.  I will show that letter in the next two posts.


Posted Jul 15, 18 20:13 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

MS Gripsholm scrapbook

sold for $207.50.

Posted Jul 15, 18 11:37 by Farley Katz (navalon)

1942 POW in Hong Kong scrapbook -- stamp collection miraculously saved

Some here might be interested in the following on sale now on the mystery website and closing soon today (Sunday):

"Up for auction is a a truly rare scrap book circa 1942. The book belonged to missionary, and prisoner of war Mary Etta Whitney. She was an American missionary working in China for some time and had been in Hong Kong for three years before the Japanese invasion and take over of the island, She was captured and held prisoner at Stanley Internment Camp outside of Hong Kong, with many other expatriates (Mostly British ), and returned to the US on the ship Gripsholm as a diplomatic exchange between the United States and Japan. I could not find out much about her other than what I found in the scrapbook. "

There is a typed letter to Ms. Whitney from a man in Canada which reads in part

"I believe I was the most surprised man in Montreal yesterday when I got your letter and I cannot make up my mind as to which to be thrilled about most- the safe return of my stamps or the fact that someone even thought about them as you did and took the trouble to salvage them. It is all just like a fairy tale to me almost too amazing to be true. The fall of Hong Kong cleaned me out of all I possess in the world and even my savings were either there or in Manila and Singapore. Of all I have lost, it is rather curious that the thing I valued most was my stamp collection since I took a lot of trouble to get it together and much of it is irreplaceable."

Added: there are some censored envelopes also, but they look pretty beat up and may have had stamps removed.

Posted Jul 15, 18 9:43 by Richard Frajola (frajola)

PCM to California

Lavar - I think an 1857 use would be consistent with that set of markings (arriving in New York Dec 1, 1857 on Havre Line steamer Fulton).

Posted Jul 15, 18 9:38 by Richard Coffey (rcoffey)

Monterey cover

Peter Feuser/Werner Munzberg's work, Deutsche Vorphilatelie, gives 1855 as the date for the Aachen transit mark on the cover.

Posted Jul 14, 18 19:51 by A. Lavar Taylor (lavart1)

Early cover to Monterey

Below is an early cover sent from Ludwigslust, Germany, to Herr Romey in Monterey, CA. John Romei, born in 1801, left Germany for Mexico in 1835. He went to Monterey in 1841 and bought land there in 1846.  He was friends with John Sutter, and he died in Placerville in 1849.  He had two sons, Charles, born in 1837, and Paul, born in 1843.

I'm wondering if anyone can identify the exact year of this cover. (There is nothing helpful on the reverse.) I suspect it was sent in the 1850's to one of the sons.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated.


Posted Jul 14, 18 6:25 by Tim O'Connor (drtimo)

Old Time Taverns, 100 years earlier

Address panel showing letter to "Major Fundy" on the Mohawk River. Prepaid Colonial mail was uncommon, and here it probably reflects his eagerness to enlist Fonda's services. The letter was probably held at Clench's Tavern for a reliable person headed towards Fonda's Posts, or Fonda was known to send a rider to Schenectady for periodic supplies/mail/etc Tim


Posted Jul 14, 18 6:18 by Tim O'Connor (drtimo)

Old Time Taverns, 100 years earlier

Superscription on the back of a 1769 letter from Philadelphia into the wild frontier beyond Albany. Robert Clench's tavern still stands, I am told, and was Schenectady's first PO. The Philadelphia merchant, writing to Jellis Fonda, asks him to have his Indians harvest as much jinseng as possible, as he can sell it in London for great prices. Apparently, the valuable root with restorative powers grew wild along the Mohawk River where Fonda had trading posts.

Next scan coming. Tim


Posted Jul 13, 18 18:24 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Old-time taverns

It is interesting the wealth of historical information that you can find on the internet.

For example, consider this Sep 3 1861 cover, see Cover ID 27276.  On a hunch I thought the cut-off hotel corner card might read "Bardwell House" of Rutland, Vt. and sure enough I found online excerpts from a book written in 1911 about that historical hotel.

In addition, the author of the book gives a quaint description of taverns of that era. See link to the Bardwell House, starting with the first paragraph on page 19: "Of these old-time taverns, it has been said: . . . ". Gives a good insight into the entertainments of that time. The account also mentions about watching a game of quoits, which was new to me.


Posted Jul 12, 18 18:39 by Richard Frajola (frajola)

Postal History of Western Overland Routes

My newest net price sale has now been uploaded. Table of Contents page is here.

Posted Jul 12, 18 9:05 by Mannan Zarif (tagore1971)

Jackass Route

Ken, thanks. I was under the impression they are all very high priced. Btw, I am a Donkey enthusiast too.

Posted Jul 12, 18 8:26 by Richard Frajola (frajola)

Postal History of the Western Overland Routes

There are two "Desert Express" uses and one great "Jackass Route" cover in my sale going live tonight. From my "sales" page (I pay much more tham $1,000 for high quality examples):

Coming Tonight) Postal History of the Western Overland Routes
 - An important net price sale will soon be posted both here and on Stamp Auction Network. The sale includes many ex Kramer and Walske covers that were illustrated in the Mails of the Westward Expansion book by Walske and Frajola.

Additional postal history items that are available but are not included in this sale may be found here.

Posted Jul 12, 18 6:46 by Gary Loew (garyloew)

anti-Tamil insurgency cover

Ken --

Regarding your cover and clandestine activities, it appears that such matters continue to this day. The Guardian newspaper recently published this article here

Posted Jul 12, 18 6:42 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

The hobby internet


Posted Jul 12, 18 6:17 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

Jackass Route

I can't know where or when the most recent was sold, but a search of Schuyler Rumsey's sales shows one cover that realized $1,000 and another that realized $950.

Posted Jul 12, 18 3:35 by Mannan Zarif (tagore1971)

Jackass Route

Can anyone tell me when was the last time mail carried by the Jackass Route was offered in public auction and what was the price realised?

Posted Jul 11, 18 23:00 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Grilled 3 cent

It has been claimed that there are three centers that, by shade and paper, are ungrilled stamps that should have gotten F grills. That makes them unrecognized major errors.