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Posted Oct 27, 16 17:07 by Roger Heath (decoppet)

Liverpool to Malta

David - "--0 - 20

NO 20 [November 20]

I don't know the UU

Posted Oct 27, 16 14:11 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Liverpool to Malta

Here is the back of that 1854 British folded letter sheet to Malta. 

The "Tithebarn St." Liverpool circular datestamp is interesting. Here is a history of that street: In 1523 Sir William Molyneux erected a tithe barn to collect produce, received as tithes in Liverpool and Kirkdale. The actual site of the barn was on the corner of Cheapside, on the south side of Tithbarn street. The main structure and oak roof could still be seen until the late 1900s.

The other reddish-brown circular datestamp (1854) on back I assume is a London marking, though I am not sure of the significance of what appears to be a "U U" and "--0 - 20" in it. Can someone explain this marking? Thank you in advance.


Posted Oct 27, 16 14:00 by David Snow (dwsnow)

The Slip and green markings

Andrew Reid,

Thank you for giving me "the slip" - I enjoyed viewing your cover to Pike Slip. I think it is appropriate that it is addressed to a "Ship Joiner", a type of ship's carpenter. I noted that your letter traveled on the Cunard Line steamship "Canada" which departed Liverpool on 29 Apr. 1854, and arrived at Boston on 12 May, probably arriving at New York the following day. When you have a chance, please post an image of the back - I would like to study the forwarding agent marking.

I was intrigued by the British "19 cents" credit marking struck in green - have never seen that marking struck in green before. I have two stampless letters in my collection with the Liverpool cds struck in green. My examples and yours are all dated from 1854. One is cover ID 21665, the other is a Nov. 18, 1854 use from Liverpool to Malta (Valletta), pictured here. Endorsed "per French Packet via Marseilles". Docketed as received 5 Dec. 1854, hence a journey of 17 days. 
The recipient, Raphael Ferro, was listed in 1850 as the Prussian Consul in Valletta, Malta.

If I am reading it correctly, this letter is rated 1s 7p. Is that correct?

Next scan will show markings on reverse.


Posted Oct 27, 16 10:25 by Russ Ryle (hoosierboy)

re: Evaluating Digital Exhibits

Morning Ken, Ravi, and all.

Regardless of why you exhibit or what you personally expect to get out of exhibiting an exhibit should stand on its own merits. For the purpose of discussion, the following is how I approached evaluating the 2016 event.

Purpose: Did the exhibitor start with a clear concise statement summarizing the material shown?

Material shown: Does the material shown logically advance the stated purpose of the exhibit?

Presentation: Is the material the obvious dominate star of each exhibit page?

If you must turn evaluating a digital exhibit into competitively judging a group of exhibits start with giving each entry 100 points. Then deduct points as you see fit for any short comings meeting these three criteria.

Several exhibits made excellent articles but the write up overshadowed the material presented.

Comments on this approach appreciated.

Thanks again to Richard for hosting this event and especially to all who entered.

Best regards,

Russ Ryle

Posted Oct 27, 16 8:15 by Luca Lavagnino (luca.lavagnino)

New FIP board

Any comment about the new FIP board?

Posted Oct 26, 16 20:23 by Andrew Reid (andrewukusa1847)

Giving David Snow The Slip

Here is an April 1854 cover written on board the "Minnesota" eastbound from New York addressed to a Ship Joiner at "Pike Slip" in New York. Was forwarded unpaid by Guion & Company in Liverpool.


Posted Oct 26, 16 19:56 by steven frumkin (sfrumkin)

Taipei FIP Exhibition

Sitting at Dao Yuan Airport waiting to leave. I wanted to post a long report about the six-day show that concluded yesterday, but I'm too tired, albeit happy. In any case, the board seems pretty busy trying to authenticate the Boyd's Local cover, which is far more important than anything I have to convey about what just happened here. I don't even have any idea who won what.

Fortunately, I did some good work including comprehensive examination of many exhibits, first time for this since Yokohama 2011.

Everyone I've spoken with, from longtime FIP muckety-mucks to first-time foreign visitors seem to aggree that Taipei FIP seems to have been a great success.

Posted Oct 26, 16 18:39 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Old Slip

David D'A.;

Thanks for posting your great Lanman & Kemp items with the 19 Old Slip address; I liked the 1863 cover from Lima, Peru, and the 1860s Hong Kong cover too. The Bill of Lading and Bill of Sale are both exquisite - their "Celebrated Florida Water" reference caused me to look it up - not something you would drink! I also learned that Lanman & Kemp had their own private die proprietary revenue stamps for perfumes and the like. Link here - scroll down.

Posted Oct 26, 16 18:25 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Martin's second readdressed cover

Note this arrived Boston the 16th.  I don't know the transit time to NY this late, but it would get there on the 16th or 17th.  Forwarded by mail of the the 19th.
I don't know what the distribution of delays is like.  It is true one sometimes sees domestic stuff from smaller towns with a one day delay.

Posted Oct 26, 16 17:43 by David D'Alessandris (davidd)

Old Slip

sorry, one more - had to post this because it is from Hong Kong, ex Blake Myers


Posted Oct 26, 16 17:40 by David D'Alessandris (davidd)

Old Slip

found a letter using the Old Slip address


Posted Oct 26, 16 17:36 by David D'Alessandris (davidd)

Old Slip

Billhead with the same address


Posted Oct 26, 16 17:33 by David D'Alessandris (davidd)

Old Slip

The address on this bill of lading reads "69, 71 & 73 Water Street & 19 Old Slip New York"


Posted Oct 26, 16 15:35 by Andrew Reid (andrewukusa1847)

Blob 2 - Additional

* also: The '5 Cents' is not an indication of postage due. The One Shilling (24 Cent) Treaty Rate for a British Packet, prepaid, breaks down as"

3 Cents UK Inland Postage 16 Cents Packet 5 Cents US Inland Postage 24 Cents Total

As Britain had collected One Shilling, the 5 Cents reflects the US share of the rate. If it had gone via American Packet, there would be a 21 Cents reflecting the US share as Britain would have only been entitled to the 3 Cents Inland portion of the 24 Cents it collected.

Posted Oct 26, 16 15:03 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Old Slip

David D'Alessandris,

Thanks for response and information.

That would be great if you could find some items with that historic Old Slip address, The "Forgotten New York" website that I had referenced has some interesting stories about the history of Old Slip, with photos. For example, Old Slip was the site of a momentous event in American history: in 1792, the 90-ton merchant brig Betsy, captained by Edmund Fanning, sailed out of Old Slip, to become the first ship to carry the American flag around the world.


Posted Oct 26, 16 14:47 by David D'Alessandris (davidd)

Old Slip

Lanman & Kemp was located at Water Street and Old Slip in lower Manhattan.  All of the letters I have seen use the Water Street address, but I think I have some billheads or bills of lading using an address of Water and Old Slip.  I'll look tonight

Posted Oct 26, 16 14:36 by David Snow (dwsnow)

New York "Slips" continued

In this later 1850 map of the Lower East Side in Manhattan, you can see that while the “slips” are still shown on the map, by then they had all been filled in except one, Coenties Slip. You can see on the map, though, things that characterize Manhattan’s slips to this day: they are wider than the streets they issue from; indeed, streets sometimes gradually widened as they became “slips.” Their interiors were filled with the East River and the ships that docked on the slips; today, they are filled with parking areas, parks or playgrounds.

Source: "Forgotten New York" website link here. Scroll down to see the history of the various 'slips' with photos.

If anyone else has covers with a New York City "Slip" address it would be great if you would be able to post them. Thanks in advance.


Posted Oct 26, 16 14:30 by David Snow (dwsnow)

New York City "Slip" address

The discussion about Marty's interesting Boyd's letters prompted me to dig out the Boyd's covers in my collection and start adding them to PhilaMercury census site; among the reasons was to study the pattern of black smudge or blob cancellations on the stamps, and grid cancels too.

Along the way, I noted the curious "Slip" address on this 1851 Boyd's stampless letter, cover ID 24426. So I researched it and wrote a brief write-up in the description.

Here’s a map drawn in 1803 showing the various docks, ships and wharves then existing along Manhattan’s shoreline. Look closely and you can see the various indentations along the east side where there were numerous “slips” and wharves.


Posted Oct 26, 16 13:47 by Andrew Reid (andrewukusa1847)

Blob Part 2

Actually, the cover is not from London, first of all. The 186 in diamond obliterator is from Dublin, Ireland. The cover never went remotely close to London.

The red PAID SE 5 1851 CDS in the reverse is a Dublin marking. The SP 6 L-A in black is a Liverpool marking. The cover went via Cunard (British Packet). It would have been the September 6 sailing of "Europa", arriving in Boston on September 17. (Ref: Hubbard & Winter). The GB 1847 One Shilling Embossed (Scott #5) paid the One Shilling Treaty Rate for a letter under 1/2 ounce in weight. Jacob Harvey was part of the merchant bankers, Abraham Bell & Co. Suspect this to his wife?

Neat cover.


Posted Oct 26, 16 12:05 by Martin Richardson (martinr)

Blob Part 2

I guess the mesage board only allows one image per messge? Her is the front of the previous cover.



Posted Oct 26, 16 12:03 by Martin Richardson (martinr)

Another Boyd's "Blob"

It seems I have generated a lot of interchange on the message board ! This letter from London is pretty easy to explain based on the markings. The only thing I do not know is the name of the ship. This is also an early, 1851, smudge/ blob.



Posted Oct 26, 16 10:49 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Melbourne Letter -- we do not have THE arrival date!

Unfortunately, I have more to say about this, but the key point demanding an alternate paths probablistic approach is that we do not know when the letter came in.  We do know it was no later than Febrary 20, 1854. ( In fact, theoretically, there is no Necessary Limit on the arrival date except for the fastest route from NY after Sept 3 or so, which is about the earliest possible date the letter would have been given to Harnden's, setting into motion whatever did happen.  The only other restriction being that it arrive at Melbourne desnudo...that is, not sent by treaty mail without an intervening forwarder.   Perhaps excluding also the Adam's messenger, if he marked covers.
(I am assuming Marty's arrival date of February 20, 1854 was speculation and that he could not read the arrival mark either.)

Posted Oct 26, 16 7:59 by John Barwis (jbarwis)

Lettr to Mrs Charles in Melbourne


The red Melbourne datestamp of 20 February 1854 includes the integral time-code "D", which means the postmark was applied between 12:45 and 2:45 p.m. It left Melbourne the same day aboard the coastal steamer "Clarence", which arrived at Launceston and was backstamped on 22 February, then went overland to Hobart.

Posted Oct 25, 16 22:12 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Advertisement dates

Ken, I am not sure what you meant.  I think the initial date, at least in the old days, is the first day the ad was run.

Posted Oct 25, 16 22:10 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Not Paid

Larry,  this was applied at the PO. 

Posted Oct 25, 16 19:39 by Lawrence LeBel (lawrence lebel)

Golden Age etal

I have been following the discussion.

The blob cancellation seems appropriate for Boyd's usages to the mails after I reviewed my exhibit that Bill S has been hosting for many years.

My Boyd's to USPO to Hungary cover has a similar NOT PAID marking & blob marking with a NYC cds which Marty's cover does not.

Was the NOT PAID marking only applied at the docks or at the Post office?

My Adams Express cover from Australia to Boyd's does not have any rate markings on it but the Adams Express messenger/agent could have had a bundle of letters and only the top one might have the rate.

& what about a closed mail bag to Australia thus explaining why no rate markings until it got to Melbourne?

Posted Oct 25, 16 19:38 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

Dates in newspaper ads were the date to which they were paid, i.e., the last date of a daily run.

Posted Oct 25, 16 19:34 by John Bowman (johnbowman)

Boyd's stamps with smudges

Of the three covers posted that have a Boyd's stamp with "smudge" obliterator (two by Marty and one by Scott), the one that looks the best (as in, the one that I would support as most likely genuine given that I am only looking at a scan), is Marty's to Wurtemmburg. This smudge appears most typical.

Posted Oct 25, 16 17:59 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Golden Age charges

No. I did miss it. It is very strong evidence that they were charging letter freight money, but I am not sure it is decisive. I did specifically look at several NY newspaper ads and they did not have that announcement. That evidence reflects on the charity cover theory, but not the selection theory. (There is something a little screwy about the cutting, as it claims to be from a Sept 3 paper, but the ad has a Sept 13 (or 23 date). Perhaps the writer accidently dropped the tens column.)

Posted Oct 25, 16 14:19 by John Barwis (jbarwis)

Golden Age


One can hallucinate multiple scenarios if one starts with a pre-conceived answer and makes up a story. The fact is that the letter was postmarked eight days after the Golden Age's arrival at Melbourne. That's simply untenable.

Did you not read the last line of the Golden Age advertisement I posted?

Posted Oct 25, 16 13:30 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Flying Spud

If those were real errors, they might be worth more on cover than off. This raises the question of whether you would have to pay the upkeep for putting it in liquid nitrogen so the potato would not go the way of all flesh.

Posted Oct 25, 16 13:23 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Golden Age

John, although that note on handling at Melbourne has a logical flaw (mixing probabilities with facts in a confused way), the underlying sequence is good in the sense that it was forwarded PAID -- thus there had to be a charge box or a non post office agent. I am not sure same day forwarding of mail that had to be readdressed was that common, especially if there was not a daily mail (which, in any case, had to be late enough to accommodate arrival of the ship, processing of the letters, recognition and correction of the misaddress, payment in this case -- one way or another, and posting.)

My point about the marking on the Hanover cover is that it is not amorphous -- it has a funny cut off at the right of the stamp of the heavy main blob and what I would call a secondary multilobate pattern of lighter inking. I am not saying it is fake, but that there is some complex geometry of the canceller implied.

The February 6 arrival at Table (not Sable) Bay is not confirmed by other sources. The sailing, of this impressive pioneering voyage, runs something like this. Scheduled to depart September 28, 1853. To carry Adams messenger. Clears, but pauses at quarantine and to sea on the morning, the 30th. Arrives at LP 7 AM Oct. 12. At some point advertised to leave on the 10th Nov with mails (both did not happen). Reasons for delay unclear, but there were apparently negotiations with Kossuth to buy the ship and send it to Constantinople in connection with the outbreak of hostilities between Turkey and Austria. Refuses mail deal with GB and offers to carries letters free. (British hire Matilda for L1000 bonus -- she is demasted an puts into Lisbon.) Scheduled to depart on November 28th. One source claims she cleared on the 26th -- perhaps erroneous. Hits quay and finally leaves 2PM on December 5th. Leaves St. Vincent December 19 (?). Arrives Cape of Good Hope in record time. Leaves January 17 (or 16). (expects 22 days to Melbourne -- looks to be more like 34 actual). Arr. Melbourne February 20th.

Now all this is by way of introduction to a reanalysis of why it went on the Golden Age. First, add in one more fact. Before leaving NY, at least as early as Sept 15th, it was expected the Golden Age would "leave for Australia shortly after arrival at Liverpool" This suggests to me a one to two week stopover. It was actually almost seven weeks, not counting the delay for repairs at the end. Assuming, for the moment, that my theory that the cover is a charity forwarding by the NYPO, then sometime, on or before the 7th, the NYPO had to start thinking about which ship to put the cover on. It did not use several sailers that left before the scheduled date for the Golden Age. These could be expected to take something like 4 months to get to Melbourne (leaving aside the question of reliability). Although I found no published schedule NY-Melbourne for the Golden Age, it looks to me like they were shooting for under 3 months. Thus it would be logical to hold the letter for the Golden Age. If one assumes the letter went back out of the PO and was put on the Golden Age privately, it becomes more complicated, as there would be an unknown delay or delays. But the logic of the sender, if there was time to put on the pre Sept. 28 sailing vessels,would be the same. One question I have is whether there would be markings if it had been given to the Adams messenger.

Posted Oct 25, 16 13:04 by John Koshel (jkoshel)

Strange stamped mail

I received a potato in the mail (from @mailaspud), but I do not know who paid the $10 to have it mailed to me - one of my students is likely. For postage it has inverted flying jennies and all (I wish they were the original ones). I know through the years that all kinds of things have been mailed, from coconuts to live chicks. It is easily the strangest thing that has been mailed to me - enjoy my most interesting postal history to date. - John


Posted Oct 25, 16 11:52 by Scott Trepel (strepel)

Minority Report

Regarding the Boyd's cover, I should not be counted in the Majority or the Minority. As I said in my post "I do not have a well-formed opinion about the cover..."

I just wanted to point out two things that should be factored into the analysis, which do provide a counter-balance to Richard's observations, but certainly do not reflect an opinion of mine, one way or the other.

The Boyd's smudge cancel fits a pattern of genuine to-the-mails usage in 1853. There are quite a few domestic to-the-mails covers with the same amorphous cancels (and no Boyd markings). However, if someone wanted to supplement their income, they could start slapping Boyd stamps on stampless foreign-destination covers from this period, tie them with black smudges, then call them macaroni. These are difficult to "prove" genuine.

In the case of Marty's cover, the awful acid-toning might show that the stamp has been on there a long time, which would argue in its favor.

Posted Oct 25, 16 11:10 by John Barwis (jbarwis)

Golden Age

Here is one outgoing from Melbourne. Golden Age carried the first transpacific mail by steamship.

The strip/4 paid only the 1/- ship fee, and no part of the journey. GB treated as unpaid and charged the 2/- rate from Panama.


Posted Oct 25, 16 6:34 by John Barwis (jbarwis)

Golden Age


A few Golden Age covers incoming to Melbourne are known. They are dated 14 February.

Same-day forwarding was common, and did not require a charge account. No need to make this more complicated than it is. Melbourne was a small town at the time. The P.O. was as easy walk from the docks (I have done it, and the same P.O. is still used). Mail had to be taken to the P.O. before passengers could debark and before bulk could be broken.


Posted Oct 24, 16 23:54 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

The Denny Theory. Smudge theory

Note that the Denny theory claims that the cover arrived on the same day it was posted to an alternate address. This requires that the post office recognized the need for forwarding, that the recipient had a charge account, that there was a mail to Fort Phillip that same day, and that all the redirecting activity took place before the Fort Phillip bag closed. OR The recipients agent got it the same day, there was a mail to Fort Phillip that day, and they head time to post it before the mail was closed.

The cove to Hanoverr Scott posted has a very peculiar marking (I will assume, for the sake of discusson, that it is genuine.) It seems to show two morphologies. There is the major, heavy smudge (that looks like it should tie, but does not. I am not suggesting it is a precancel). Then there is was looks like a four lobed thing. Perhaps they represent different aspects of the smudgal device. Now the Melbourne cover has a smudge on the stamp. There are also two nearby black markings. They do not seem to link up to any of the postal markings. But it May be that they are stray touches of the smudger or the smudger's smudged fingers. They are not a normal kind of thing a faker would do. Thus I think they are plausibiily arguments, not decisive, for the verity of the Boyd's use.

Posted Oct 24, 16 22:43 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

More apologies to John

In the back and forth, I missed the note on the arrivals of ships from NY. None seems to be a great fit, giving more credence to the Golden Age theory. The date of 25 July for the Frank Johnson is presumably a typo for 25 Sept. Compare the newspaper date of 26 Sept in my later list. My Sizi is obviously John's Siri. I suspect Siri is correct.

Posted Oct 24, 16 22:33 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Melbourne mail schedule question.

What were the relevant dates for mail out of Melbourne beginning Feb. 14 or so? If 20 is the first reasonable date for it to get out, that would be nice. If John doesn't have the data, maybe one of our Australian confreres will wander by later and bless us with their expertise.

Posted Oct 24, 16 22:26 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Golden Age

Another overlap with John. Feb 14 is enticingly close to the Feb. 20 date out of Melbourne. I wonder how many letters are known carried US to Melbourne on this voyage. If this is one of them, then it is mighty nice. (Also, that would expiate a debt of sin I owe to Marty).

If my original theory is semi correct, does that mean that the NYPO held the letter past the earlier sailings in anticipation of putting it on the Golden Age??

Posted Oct 24, 16 22:22 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Golden Age to Melbourne

The Golden Age's captain refused to carry mails from LP on British terms, but offered to carry letters free. It left around Dec. 5 and arrived Sable Bay Feb. 6 1854, in record speed LP to Melbourne.

Posted Oct 24, 16 22:21 by John Barwis (jbarwis)

The Golden Age

Golden Age did not arrive at Melbourne until 14 February 1854. She did not sail directly to Melbourne from New York, but left the U.S. for Liverpool, where she picked up additional crew.

Posted Oct 24, 16 22:07 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

NY to Melbourne

A somewhat unsatisfactory search gives NY departures for Melbourne through Dec. 12, 1853 (dates may be paper rather than clearing) - Sept: 13 Livi, 14 Heloise, 17 Sizi, Carllisle (Capt), 26 Frank Johnson Oct: 17 Angelique, 22 Thomas W. Sears, Anderson (Capt) Nov: 2 Vermont, 12 Eliza Frost (clear Nov(9), 18 Ddward (sic) Dec: 1 Elizbeth Ellen, 16 Ocean Steed, 17 Columbia, Rowe (Capt -- clear 12)

Also, the Collins Line Golden Age was scheduled to leave for Liverpool, thence Australia, Sept. 28. I don't know if it was a contract voyage nor its port of arrival in Australia, but it is another maybe.

The amount of activity at New York in this period is most impressive.

Posted Oct 24, 16 21:20 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

The Not Paid

This marking is a New York marking. I believe the earliest known was for some time in the stock of Freeman's philatelcs and was 1848. I have an 1849 and I believe the marking was used on occasion for quite some time. My point is that the via GB, involving back to Boyd's (no markings), back to the customer? (no markings), to a private ship (no markings), to some unknown forwarder in GB (no official markings, no private markings) and onto a ship to Melbourne (no markings) is a lot of silent work, Even considering that, at some point (before leaving NY) it acquired a cover cover. The other explanation, whilst a bit esoteric, is at least simple and straightforward and the ships were available. Much as I like my explanation, I think at this point the conclusion is inconclusive. I gather the arrival date in Melbourne is a bit speculative. The other question is -- is the arrival record official or from the papers. If the later, it need not be complete. Of course the cover cover could have been handed off privately somewhere out there, but that is not a desireable thing to contemplate.

Posted Oct 24, 16 20:18 by John Bowman (johnbowman)

Boyd's Cover to Melbourne

Whose "NOT PAID" marking is on the cover? If not New York PO, then what service did Boyd's provide? It does seem to be a privately carried cover until it entered the mail in Australia.

Both this cover and the one Scott provided demonstrate the difficulty of authenticating Boyd's stamps with smudge cancels, which in my opinion were applied by Boyd's and only found on letters "to the mails."

Posted Oct 24, 16 19:47 by John Bowman (johnbowman)

Boyd's Cover to Melbourne

Whose "NOT PAID" marking is on the cover? If not New York PO, then what service did Boyd's provide? It does seem to be a privately carried cover until it entered the mail in Australia.

Both this cover and the one Scott provided demonstrate the difficulty of authenticating Boyd's stamps with smudge cancels, which in my opinion were applied by Boyd's and only found on letters "to the mails."

Posted Oct 24, 16 19:38 by John Bowman (johnbowman)

Boyd's Cover to Melbourne

Whose "NOT PAID" marking is on the cover? If not New York PO, then what service did Boyd's provide? It does seem to be a privately carried cover until it entered the mail in Australia.

Both this cover and the one Scott provided demonstrate the difficulty of authenticating Boyd's stamps with smudge cancels, which in my opinion were applied by Boyd's and only found on letters "to the mails."

Posted Oct 24, 16 19:24 by John Barwis (jbarwis)

New York to Melbourne

Seven ships arrived at Melbourne from New York during the first two months of 1854: 4 Jan: Three Brothers (27 Aug). 8 Jan: Siri (13 Sep). 12 Jan: Aeolous (14 Aug). 15 Jan: Frank Johnson (25 Jul). 19 Jan: Duchess (16 Sep). 2 Feb: Angelique (10 Oct). 26 Feb: Thomas W. Sears (28 Oct).

There were also seven arrivals from Boston during the same period.

Posted Oct 24, 16 19:12 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Hand back theory

John, my last sending overlapped yours. I think it still could have been one of the many ships from NYC to Melbourne in late 1853. What was the normal range of transit times, leaving the US in late summer or fall?

Posted Oct 24, 16 19:08 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Apologies to Mr. Barwis - more on the non mail direct theory

On September 13, 1853, the Barque Livi departed for Melbourne from NYC, to be followed by a number of others. I don't know when it arrived and I can't read the date on the Melbourne ship marking. John did suggest direct travel from the U.S. The mercy cover theory would pretty much limit the departure to one from NYC.

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