Message Board

Time Period:   Username Search:
Order By: Keyword Search:
   Reset Filters


Page:1 2

Posted Mar 18, 18 22:19 by David Snow (dwsnow)

1868 Liverpool to Bremen

John B. and Andrew R.,

Thanks for your responses and information. Yes, looking at this map of Belgium it is logical that my cover went from Ostende to Verviers, Belgium.  Aaachen (French: Aix-la-Chapelle), Germany is only 39km northeast of Verviers. No need to go through France.

I have updated my cover's description to reflect routing information that you had kindly provided. See Cover ID 27051.


Posted Mar 18, 18 17:04 by Chip Gliedman (cgliedman)


I think he's got it!

(to paraphrase Henry Higgins)

Help always appreciated.

Bernard: the missing half mark from the back is a Paris transit with an unreadable date.


Posted Mar 18, 18 11:06 by Andrew Reid (andrewukusa1847)

Routings to Germany

There were a number of routings possible to Prussia - Thames Packet via Hamburg, Thames Packet via Rotterdam, Via Belgium, of Via France. The transit markings obviously help distinguish between rates and dates. The attached is a December 10, 1844 example from London to the Countess of Westmoreland in Berlin that used the Thames Packet via Hamburg routing versus the others. It was a fairly expensive routing with the cost being 1s 8d per 1/4 ounce (40 cents) mailed in London or 1s 10d (44 cents) from outside London. By 1868 the Belgian route would have been the expected one. The Hamburg and Rotterdam options ceased in 1853. (Note: Not convinced that the 2d belongs - December 1844 is a late date for a Maltese Cross cancel in London, though not unheard of)


Posted Mar 18, 18 10:51 by Andrew Reid (andrewukusa1847)

1868 Liverpool-Bremen

David, John is correct. This cover would have gone via Ostende, Belgium and Aachen based upon the transit markings. If it had traveled via France I would expect French transits. This cover has all the markings I would expect for the routing that John referenced.

Posted Mar 18, 18 9:57 by John Barwis (jbarwis)

England to Bremen 1868


Rather than via France, I believe your letter went from London to Belgium (Ostende), then to Aachen via Verviers.

Notice that (AUS ENGLAND PER AACHEN) is in parentheses. Van der Linden's type 254 shows three variations, in blue only in 1868.

Posted Mar 18, 18 3:17 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Liverpool to Germany

This 1868 folded letter is from Liverpool to Elsfletch, a river port near Bremen, Germany. See Cover ID 27051.  Note that it is endorsed at lower left Paid, "Johanne". At first I thought the sender wanted this letter to be routed by a steamship named "Johanne", but when I saw the blue "Aus England  Aachen-Franco" circular marking I realized that this cover was routed through the German city of Aachen in the interior, located near the borders with Belgium and the Netherlands, the normal entry point for mail destined for Germany by rail. Meaning it did not go by sea from Liverpool to Bremen.

There is a London transit marking on reverse, so I suppose this cover went across the Channel to Calais, France, and then by rail to Aachen to enter Germany.  Since there is no Calais entry marking, I assume this cover was carried in a closed mail bag from London to Aachen.

If that is true, what then is the meaning of the "Johanne" directive? Thank you in advance for your comments.


Posted Mar 17, 18 23:06 by David Handelman (davidh)

French cover

A very similar one is illustrated in my exhibit

in Richard's Mercury site, specifically the 1836 cover on the first page of the exhibit (not counting the title page). Paid 1/– cy to the border from Quebec—the actual rate for 201–300 miles was equivalent to 10d stg. Its translation to currency varied somewhat, and apparently, in 1838 (the year of your cover) was only 11 d cy (an alternative—and possibly better—explanation for the 1/ charge on my cover is that they included a 1 d carrier fee, to the Quebec post office; this is not unusual). Then the usual Paid 18 3/4¢ US rate.

The 10 (sometimes resembling a W) in the upper left of your cover is not a rate mark, but a French notation indicating 10--15 g, hence double the French rate (see several covers further on in the exhibit; French weight steps were different from those of Canada, US, and UK). To figure out the French rate, there is a 1 décime incoming ship letter fee, plus mileage charge from the port of entry, Le Havre, to Lyon, all of which is supposed to be doubled. I don't have the latter rates at my fingertips, but likely other people do.

The marking on reverse is definitely French, and I have seen similar ones on other covers from Canada to France. I don't know what it means.

A very good reference for Canada-France (and vice versa) stampless period covers is Allan Steinhart's published Canada-France exhibit. Allan had a French expert do the French rates for him. Unfortunately, there don't seem to be many copies of this work around. I have one—somewhere.

Posted Mar 17, 18 16:27 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Chip's cover

No clue. But there are three French rates -- 10, 19, and the odd 37- (I suppose it could be a combined rate, but that is mildly farfetched). If the 11 rate is wrong, I suppose it could be an error of perserveration -- the 18 3/4 carried over into C currency. This is another unlikely speculation. There is no 8 but &. It would help very slightly if you showed the whole cover. One of the French markings is partly buried by the improper refolding.

Posted Mar 16, 18 23:28 by Rob Faux (robfaux)

March Party

See you in Cleveland.

Posted Mar 16, 18 21:31 by Matthew Liebson (liebson)

Chip - looking forward to seeing it all in person in Cleveland! 

p.s. anybody coming and need something specific for the hospitality suite, please let me know.  I'll do my best (though I will probably only be at the suite on Thursday due to baby :) )

Posted Mar 16, 18 19:56 by Chip Gliedman (cgliedman)


so it is.


Every bit helps.


Posted Mar 16, 18 18:48 by Mark Schwartz (schwamoo)

Cleveland bound


I haven’t looked at the rest yet, but I believe the “8” is really an “&” as in New York & Le Havre.

Posted Mar 16, 18 17:12 by Chip Gliedman (cgliedman)

...another cute addition

Scotland, via London, to Moose River on Hudson's Bay.

*This one I have figured*


Posted Mar 16, 18 17:09 by Chip Gliedman (cgliedman)

Cleveland-bound, if I can write it up

Hoping to add this and a few other things to my Red River exhibit for Garfield-Perry. I'm close with this one, but I think I need a bit of help getting over some mental humps. Can anyone push me over?

I have the routing - St. Boniface (Winnipeg) -> Lachine -> Quebec -> NY -> LeHavre -> Lyon.

Entered the mail at Quebec.
Marked "Paid 11" at top left and "Paid 18 3/4" at lower left.
Figuring the 11 as BNA and 18.. as US postages (note that 11 Cy = 18 3/4 US)
The 11 seems a bit high for Quebec to the border. Anyone want to confirm this?

There is also a "37 1/2" on the back, which would correspond to 2 x 18 3/4 or 11 Cy + 18 3/4 US, so maybe the 11 is right for BNA postage, if that number represents the total paid when it entered the mail at Quebec.

Also see what could be a "10" and an "8" in manuscript at the top left. Figuring the 10 for grams marked at LeHavre on entry, but why two numbers?

Is there an easy way to find which ship left NYC on Oct 24, 1838 heading to LeHavre with this cover? French datestamps on back are blurry, so hard to tell when it arrived.

19 Decimes for 10 grams 650 Km from LeHavre to Lyon.

Thanks for any help confirming the Canadian postage, the ship name, and the explanation for the two top left numbers.

See you in Cleveland, I hope (have some other goodies going into the exhibit - will link when finished with the next draft)


Posted Mar 16, 18 16:14 by Bernard Biales (bernard b)

Small Paid

The small paid is known dated Jan. 16. Does anyone know why I think there is a good chance it was not used on that date even though the covers are genuine? That cover is very nice -- I don't know if anyone mentioned the center strike is obviously filled in to cover lost piece. I have an off cover single in my stamp holding -- they are very attractive uses of the one cent, especially on the pastel color variety.

Posted Mar 16, 18 10:00 by Mark Robbins (funcitypapa4051)

Hamlin free frank

Doesn’t look like Hamlin’s signature to me. Many times, wives or secretaries franked mail. Varina Davis comes to mind as an example

Posted Mar 16, 18 9:46 by David Katz (beersnob1)

Hannibal Hamlin Free Frank?

Hi! This item was in an auction lot, and presented as a Hannibal Hamlin Free Frank. However, the signature doesn't match Hamlins. Could it be a Hamlin free frank, just not done in his hand? Thanks in advance for any information you can provide. Dave


Posted Mar 16, 18 8:47 by Jim Watson (jimbonita)

Fort Slocum Postcard


Thanks for your effort. See e-mail.

Posted Mar 15, 18 23:28 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Paul Revere House

Here is a circa 1880 photograph of the Paul Revere House in North Square, Boston, built about 1680.  Paul Revere owned this house from 1770 to 1800.  Image courtesy of Society for the Preservation of New England Antiquities.

After Revere sold the home in 1800, it soon became a sailor's boarding house. See link. Not to be confused with the Revere House in Bowdoin Square, where my cover (ID 27042) came from.


Posted Mar 15, 18 23:20 by David Snow (dwsnow)

small Boston Paid

I find the discussion of the small red Boston Paid cancel very informative.

Here is a 26 Sep 1851 example of the small Boston Paid struck in black, 18mm.

Unlike the marking struck in red for a very short time, according to Blake it was struck in black for a longer time period, 7/12/51 to 1/15/52.

But what I like most about this cover is the red embossed cameo hotel picture (American House) on the back. See Cover ID 25333.

Interestingly enough, I have just added to PhilaMercury another Boston cover with the corner card of another hotel, Revere House. See Cover ID 27042. My thanks to Mark Schwartz for providing information about that hotel, not to be confused with the Paul Revere House in North Square, which is still standing.


Posted Mar 15, 18 17:06 by Mark Schwartz (schwamoo)

Small red Boston paid

That is an old version of the page. I now have a cover dated August 1 with a small red Boston Paid.

Posted Mar 15, 18 14:32 by Mark Rogers (markrogers)

1c 1851 with Small red Boston PAID

Mark - its kind of interesting that both of your red paid covers are dated July 14th.

Barry's is the 17th.

The period of use, per your page is the 7th - 28th. I wonder what else might show up.

I vaguely remember an anecdote that Ron told me once about this. I'm thinking this might be the one about the neighbor or something ... I'll have to get a refresh :-)

Posted Mar 15, 18 14:24 by Mark Schwartz (schwamoo)

1c 1851 with Small red Boston PAID

One of those I noted is the cover from Ron Cipolla's original 1851 collection, which was sold in a Spink sale 6-8 years ago. If you get a chance, there is a great story behind that cover Ron would love to tell you.

The other cover, with a single paying the circular rate, came up about 2-3 years ago; I cannot remember which auction without going through a lot of receipts in shoeboxes in my closet!

Note that I was hedging my bets with the description of 2-3 known. I'll have to change that now.


Posted Mar 15, 18 13:04 by Mark Rogers (markrogers)

1c Boston Cover

Barry - congrats on finding a spectacular rarity of a cover.

The stamps are, without a doubt: 8-9-10R1E (Ty: Ib, Ib, II).
8R1E is one of the best examples of Ty Ib, if not the best, and yours shows the type well.

Mark Schwartz is the Boston expert, but prior to this, I had only seen 1 cover with the red small Boston paid on a 1c stamp. It was in Ron Cipolla's 1c exhibit. July '51 covers franked with the 1c stamp are hard to find, which makes one with this cancel a special item.

I should point out that if Aug D Rogers is my ancestor, then I'm quite annoyed that he didn't pass this cover on to me in his estate. (kidding :-)

Posted Mar 15, 18 9:25 by Cliff Alexander (calexander)

New Public Exhibit

Ken, Thanks for postign the article. For those not familiar with NYC, the Morgan Library is only 1 1/2 blocks up the street from the Collectors Club, where the offices of the Philatelic Foundation are now located.

Posted Mar 15, 18 9:13 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

his draft registration card



Posted Mar 15, 18 9:10 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

1940 draftee's post card

in Jim Forte's stock for $15 (note Prexie coil stamp)


Posted Mar 15, 18 7:51 by Mark Robbins (funcitypapa4051)

early PF certificates, archives, and provenance

As collectors, many times we can only speculate where an item that we have acquired has been over the previous 100-200 years. Certainly there are many items whose provenance are well documented going back a long way but they would seem to pale with the number of items where you know where you got the piece but very little before that. Being able to track that item over time has always held a fascination for me in the same way that the experts on this panel dissect the pathways that a cover took on its journey ultimately to you.

I recently came across a remarkably early PF certificate, #201 from May 1946 for an unused 272a with an "I" watermark. It was signed by several philatelic luminaries including Alfred Lichtenstein, George RM Ewing, and Theodore Steinway. The item was subsequently recertified in 1981. But you won't see either of these certificates on the PF website. That is because, for some reason, 272a does not pop up in the search for early certs even though 271, 271a, 272 including imperforate pairs do.

That led me to wonder what stamp was certified first by the PF in 1945 and also what kinds of stamps were submitted for expertization in the beginning of the PF. The archives are not listed by cert number so I can't answer the former question, but if you have enough time, the second question is available for research. We have all seen stamps like unused 67's, 70b's, and no grill pictorials offered without a cert and wondered what information did somebody know in the past that is not being offered up now. A close examination of the early PF opinions and images will answer some of those questions.

Posted Mar 15, 18 7:31 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

New Public Exhibit


“I make money to spend on my collection,” said Mr. Corrêa do Lago, who buys autograph materials from large auction houses like Bonham’s, Christie’s and Sotheby’s, as well as through dealers and private sales. “I’ve worked a lot more than I would have, to be able to support and pay for this passion. I’m basically lazy, but I knew I had auction bills to pay. Auctions never happen when your pockets are full.”

Posted Mar 14, 18 21:05 by Gordon Eubanks (gordon)

Here is a cover with R1E positions 1-3. Types II, II, Ib


Posted Mar 14, 18 20:00 by Mark Schwartz (schwamoo)

1851 Boston cover


Great cover, irrespective of plan and position. I knew that there were possibly 3 Boston covers with the 1c 1851 canceled by the small red Boston paid. I know where two are (my collection) but did not know where the third (if it existed) was until now. Congratulations on a very nice find.

Posted Mar 14, 18 18:25 by Richard Drews (bear427)

1 cent strip


Has to be plate 1 early. The small red Boston PAID cancels nail the time period. The plating marks agree with 1-3R1E. No recuts.


Posted Mar 14, 18 17:55 by Jim Watson (jimbonita)

WWII Draftee Cover


Thanks for the advice. I have bought the cover you found. I'll have to see how it fits. I suspect that I won't use the site.

Thanks, too, for the enlightening further discussion of serial numbers in return addresses.

Posted Mar 14, 18 17:10 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

Draftee cover


Most of us photo copy the back sides of covers to show significant features. If you wait for the perfect cover you might never obtain one. For $7 you ought to buy it. If you're lucky enough to find a better one later, that's a trivial price to pay for duplication. If not, your essential need is met.

For my writing about military postal history from the Civil War to WW2 I have subscribed to for a long time. At first it was a free nonprofit service to scan National Archives records from the Revolutionary War to modern times. A commercial web profiteer bought it several years ago, so it's not cheap for a casual researcher to use.

Added: Regarding serial numbers, I think they were never mandatory in return addresses except in the case of prisoners of war beginning in 1942. The 25 December 1941 concessionary air mail rate and the 1 April 1942 concessionary free letter and post card privilege required only name, rank, and military address. But senders of parcels to active-duty members of the armed forces overseas, beginning in early 1942, required serial numbers of the addressees. To make this practical, the soldiers included their serial numbers on letters so their families would be able to address the parcels correctly.

Posted Mar 14, 18 17:09 by Barry Elkins (elkman3)

1c 1851 better image

Here is a 600 dpi scan of the strip.


Posted Mar 14, 18 17:08 by Barry Elkins (elkman3)

1c 1851 cover

I just acquired this cover in an auction.  Befroe I send it for a certiifcate, can someone help with the ID of the stamps??  The cvoer was identified as a strip of 3 of #9.  To me the strip of 3 looks like positions 8, 9, and 10 RE1.  Too bad the central stamp has a hole in it that was presnt before the strip was applied to the cover!!  Contents are dated July 16, 1851.


Posted Mar 14, 18 16:32 by Jim Watson (jimbonita)

Thanks for the help

Steven F.,

I was unable to find such a cover in Jim Forte's searches. Too many returned only exotic items like foreign destinations. Couldn't find any simple items. I've sent an e-mail describing my needs.

Stephen T.,

Thanks for your effort and suggestions. The trouble is that this cover just doesn't have enough to attract attention. You have to look at it twice to see what it is. It is just too easy to overlook.


Thanks for the catch. Unfortunately, the return address is not on the front of the cover. Thanks, too, for the note on serial number requirement. I do think I have seen some from earlier in the period - perhaps just an overzealous GI (or an aging memory ;-) ). Can you tell me what database provided the inductee data? TIA

Posted Mar 14, 18 12:56 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

Pre-Pearl Harbor draftee camp mail

One early draftee cover for sale is here. The requirement to include a serial number in the return address did not exist until 1942.

Added: Stephen Roach is listed as a selectee, Serial No. 36035967, inducted 11 June 1941.

Posted Mar 14, 18 12:10 by Stephen T. Taylor (UK) (stevetayloruk)

WWII cover

Jim, checked my WWII stock but unfortunately nothing which fits those parameters. Besides Doug Weisz & Jim Forte as mentioned by Steve, I'd recommend checking with Paul Huber (Fairwinds) who has a nice stock of military mail and Dann Mayo, if still active (believe he might have retired) as he's a military postal history specialist. Good luck, Steve

Posted Mar 14, 18 8:57 by Russ Ryle (hoosierboy)

re: David Kols remembered

Penny, remember the good times in this time of tragic loss. You and David always treated me fairly with a smile whenever I visited the St. Louis show. It's hard to do now but look forward towards new adventures in better days ahead.

In this and most tragic situations we can go on forever discussing would have, should have, did have scenarios; but, we are left with what we have and must move forward.

Now folks, it is time for healing.

Posted Mar 14, 18 6:27 by Ken Lawrence (kenlawrence)

"Bookkeeper of Auschwitz" collected stamps


Mr. Gröning, a stamp collector, recalled later encountering a fellow philatelist, who told him that the Holocaust did not happen, according to accounts in Der Spiegel and elsewhere. He wrote a note to the man saying: “I saw everything — the gas chambers, the cremations, the selection process. One and a half million Jews were murdered in Auschwitz. I was there.”

Posted Mar 13, 18 22:50 by steven frumkin (sfrumkin)

1940ish Cover and Naplex


Since time is tight, I highly recommmend checking out the Jim Forte website. This may take awhile, but might yield a more than satisfactory result. Presumably you went through the Doug Weisz and Stephen Taylor stocks last month at Sarasota, unless of course your need for this cover didn't exist at that time.

Three years ago I had a scheduling conflict and couldn't attend Sarasota. Still needed to go to Florida, so arranged a trip around Naplex. Only a few 'regular' show-circuit dealers were there, such as Bob and Gary of New England Stamp as well as A to Z. Virtually nothing significant in covers, but what I found most interesting was the relatively large number of retirees who were set up there.

Typical was one guy who had some old collection remnants in albums and on loose pages. You went through, picked out the ones you wanted, looked them up in his Scott catalogue, and then he sold them to you on percentage, implicitly factoring in your time and effort. I recall that he was surprised that I actually turned up a few items of value.

It occurred to me that in today's Florida, there may be at least one of these quasi-dealers in every town with a population over 100,000. That's a lot of dealers. Imagine being retired in Florida, being able to justify playing with stamps, and even getting the heck out of a spouse's way for two whole days.

May never again be practical for me to attend Naplex, but I wish we had more shows like it and frequently.

Posted Mar 13, 18 22:19 by Jim Watson (jimbonita)

Need a US cover from October 18, 1940 to August, 1941


I need your help in finding an elusive US cover. It will have these characteristics: It is a letter home from one of the peacetime draftees from the period October 18, 1940. to, say, August, 1941. It will be fairly common looking (approx.6 3/4 size, franked with 3¢ 1938 Presidential or otherwise undistinguished stamp). The return address should indicate It was sent by a Pvt xxxx  with a serial number somewhere in the 30 millions from some camp/base/fort likely to be involved in basic training. The cancel will indicate the camp/base/fort and the date in the period. It should be addressed to "home" - someone with the same family name, girlfriend, someone else.

The significance of the cover is just that this is a letter home by a recent peacetime draftee. The first draftees were inducted on October 18, 1940. The cutoff of August is because the first draftees were scheduled for only a year in the army which ended in October 1941. As the end of their service neared they were disgruntled. They were short on equipment and used such things as wooden rifles and plywood tanks. They were chalking OHIO (Over the Hill In October) on buildings and some of the 'tanks'. The term of enlistment was extended to 18 months before October 18, 1941 and then Pearl Harbor changed everything.

Now the catch! I need this to be in my hands no later than Thursday, March 21 - 2 weeks from yesterday. The reason is that I need to add it to an exhibit for a club show.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Jim Watson

Posted Mar 13, 18 22:09 by Jim Watson (jimbonita)

Naplex 2018

If you have a chance, visit Naplex 2018 on March 23 and 24. This year it is a joint coin and stamp show.


Posted Mar 13, 18 17:32 by Charles E. Cwiakala ([email protected])

+++ David M. Kols +++

I've just been informed of the death earlier today of David M. Kols, who was the President of REGENCY-SUPERIOR LTD. The following message was posted by his wife, Penney:

“Today, I lost my sweet husband of over 31-years. It breaks my heart to say goodbye. We met at work 33-years ago, and have been inseparable since. For those who weren't aware, he has been battling terminal colon cancer for over a year now. I loved his spirit - when mine was down - he always remained positive. But, now it's over, and I am lost without him.”

Posted Mar 13, 18 15:42 by Charles Garcia (hongkongstamps)

Ningpo 1844 American Consulate China

Reading through the online archive here and found entries that mention there was indeed a US Consulate at Ningpo by Juy 1844, so considering the "Macgowan" letter was written only days before the signing of the treaty , it is entirely possible that this letter was sent through or handled by the US consulate Ningpo in early July.


Posted Mar 13, 18 12:56 by Rainer Fuchs (rainer)

CORREO SEMANAL DEL DORADO Covers and Stamps Ex Ray Iverson


if i remember correctly someone told me that the CORREO SEMANAL DEL DORADO collection of Ray Iverson has been sold at a Canadian Auction? 
I was searching the Internet  for any info bit did not found anything.., am I wrong or has some member here more information?

The stamps and covers form that private carrier look like that!


Posted Mar 13, 18 12:53 by George Tyson (gtyson)

Small Queen

Personally, I don't think you can say for sure in this case based on the cancellation. You'd have to put it under UV to see if there's the "ghost" of a prior stamp position. (it might also tell you if the stamp has been trimmed.) Of course, sometimes you just can't tell for sure and it becomes a matter of opinion.

Posted Mar 13, 18 12:20 by David Snow (dwsnow)

Two-letter American post offices

John Koshel and Mike Ludeman,

Thank you for your posts listing two-letter U.S. post offices - very interesting.  Browsing through my Helbock book on Western Post Offices, I have found only one:

O.Z. in El Paso County, Colorado (in operation 1877 - 1889). Not certain if any examples are known; Helbock gives it a scarcity index of 7 on a scale from 0 (operating) to 9 (rarest).

Posted Mar 13, 18 7:35 by Charles Garcia (hongkongstamps)

Ningpo 1844

Legs on the "44"


Page:1 2