Message Board

Letter to Sandwich islands

A - I would say that the Hawaiian bark Bernice is a likely candidate. Interestingly, contract steamship service began later in the same month with the Idaho.

Rumsey Streetcars

Steve:  Prices seemed fine to me for the condition offered. Brighton Car flag on a cover front did very well considering.  The Boston & Somerville flag went through the roof.  Surely 2 people that did not have it found this one :-)

The San Francisco items went a bit low but the Mission Street flag strikes on postcards were not very clear to bring the big $$  I don't think the same folks that bid on the Truax material were bidding here or that they were happy with what they had.  The Market Street Pharmacy ADV did very well and I guess I helped but lost :-)

Cary Johnson

Cary:  I thought overall the prices realized for streetcar covers in the Rumsey sale were disappointingly low, considering the offerings.  My only interest was in a couple of the Bostons, but I didn't throw any bids out.  Did the Cinn. postcard just not sell? I thought the price for the cover face was also on the low side.

~~~ Harry E. Graetz ~~~

I regret to inform you of the death of my good friend and long-time stamp and postal history dealer, Harry E. Graetz, of Overland Park KS, who passed last night at the age of 84. I have no further details at this time.

May he rest in peace   ...

Chuck Cwiakala

Rumsey Sale

Ditto for me, won 2 of 11 lots bid on and they were minor wants. There appears to be a resurgence in demand for stampless transatlantic covers. Grumph!

Sad News

Juan Luis Pedro Phillipo de Huevos "Epstein" is dead.

Rumsey Sale

I was successful on several nice streetcar RPOs and must say that their online bidding program works much better than Stamp Auction Central.  I was bidding on Kelleher Sale in the morning and the screen noted SOLD TO YOU but bidding went forward and my bid keys were frozen so I lost the lot.  Very unhappy with that!

Scientific Analysis

Despite my background in catalysts I am not a fan of the use of scientific devices in philately for various reasons, sorry but i will not get into this

However there is one simple device that I am in love with, scanning a stamp or cover for detailed examination and analysis, ie plating, condition and identification.

 All one needs is a quality scanner, say $750 (i now use a Hp 8300), a decent computer  and a few programs such as Adobe Photoshop, Corel Photo Paint, etc.

Can some one recommend a good program applicable to philately to measure via the scanner. I know there are several and they have been recommended to me but I didn’t take any action and forget the details

 Leonard

I was pleased to see some pretty strong machine cancel realizations in the Rumsey auction, though I haven't had a chance to really study the results in anything approaching a cohesive manner.

Letter to Sandwich islands

Hello all, Recently I’ve bought this cover. I’ve found that it was sent by Cunard steamer “Cuba” on 6 July 1867 from Liverpool to Boston 17 July. On 20 July per PMSC steamer “Rising Star” from New York to Aspinwall (New York Times archieves). By railway over the Isthmus to Panama on the Pacific Coast and on 28 July per PMSC steamer “Sacramento” to San Francisco 11 August (Daily Alta California archieves). As I understand that there was no mail contract for the Sandwich Islands route in this period I like to know if anyone have information about the ship that brought this letter to Honolulu, arriving 4 September 1867. No backstamps.

Rumsey sale

Stan - this was a very strong sale for Schuyler.  I obtained a few items for my clients but on other lots their NTE was way too low.  For myself, I had minimal success - expo stuff was in heavy demand.  And no, I did not bid on the AYP flag cancel.

SR sale in progress

Well, one incident may not a picture paint, but I am used to winning around 70 percent of bids I place with major auction houses, and I must say I was thoroughly hosed (losing by 200-400%) on all three bids I placed with Rumsey this week.

Steve,

Yes it is, but I have no influence with the powers that be, and their financial priorities are elsewhere. The CS-16 still does everything it always did, but there are more advanced and efficient devices on the market today. At such time as new leadership becomes interested in them, I'd recommend they seek advice from the best equipped federal crime lab forensic scientists, just as we did 15 years ago.

APEX Crimescope

Ken L, anyone--Isn't the crimescope getting to be technologically a bit long in the tooth? What would replace it? Cost?

For the record, I have striven to bring science to philately for about 25 years. In the 1980s I worked with forensic scientists at the RCMP laboratory to investigate a Canadian who was counterfeiting rare U.S. plate number coils, and at the U.S. Postal Inspection Service crime lab to investigate a senior bureaucrat at USPS headquarters who was faking rare first day covers. Both episodes are described in my PNC handbook published by Linn's in 1989. Based on those experiences, when I became a member of the APS Board in 1991, I proposed acquiring the equipment they used for our expertizing. APS executive director Keith Wagner opposed it. I proposed it publicly at a seminar at PhilLitEx 1992 in New York, where John Dunn and Charles Shreve took the opposite view. Eventually, after Bob Lamb became APS executive director, he and Mercer Bristow and Dan Walker and I visited the USPIS crime lab and consulted them again. On their recommendation, I proposed that APEX acquire a Crimescope, which the Board approved, made no appropriation, but authorized me to raise the money, which I did by requesting $1,000 from each of 40 donors. More recently I passed the hat to help Ted Liston acquire his x-ray diffraction equipment, and went with Don Sundman and Wilson Hulme to Gene Hall's lab at Rutgers where he examined genuine and Grinnell Missionary stamps for the NPM and Mystic.

I would especially welcome a study that can differentiate National and Continental ink chemistries, so that we can begin to identify unrecognized 24¢ Continentals. 

John B,

I had previously described the organic components of the 1847, 1851, and 1873 series inks of which I was aware. Perhaps you doubted those. Roger added the 1869 and 1870 inks, whether for your amusement or for my education I can't say, but I'm glad of it. Still no Tyrian purple, though.

I have observed Raman spectrography and x-ray diffraction in philatelic examinations, which are well advanced from instrumentation available in my day. (That's not saying much; any equipment I used would be a museum display today. We had to perform tedious potentiometric titrations to test for ions that today's chemists detect with digital probes.) But I have not seen or read of nondestructive tests for quantitative analysis of ink or paper chemistries. (The paper lab that performed the Salm Foundation analyses for my report on pressure-sensitive adhesives denied that non-destructive tests exist for paper or gum.) For ink, the Mead-Westvaco lab read spectra and generated ink match formulas without regard to the chemistry of the color being matched.

Inks

Ken

I was wrong about organic components. Nevertheless I got a good laugh from your "I told you so" comment, which was as predictable as the sunrise. Thanks for the brief entertainment.

Which specific instruments do you mean when you say "instruments used in analyzing stamps, inks and papers"...?

Ink Formulas

Roger,

Thank you. Your data confirm my earlier point about organic components.

John B,

To my knowledge the instruments used in analyzing stamps, inks, and papers are not capable of quantitative reports. Even their relative qualitative findings are pretty crude compared to nondestructive remote sensing in industrial applications, which is why the scientists report average readings taken at different points, varying field areas, and so forth. What procedures do you have in mind?

John Barwis

I'm afraid you are about to chase the proverbial wild goose.  Even today, sodium chloride from five different sources will provide five different analytical results.  Taking it a step further, different lots of a particular wood stain from a single manufacturer will give different shades on a single type of wood, never mind what will present on say plywood made up of several types of material.  The best you will come up with is a guesstimation, even if the sources of chemicals are identical to 150 years ago.  Sorry.

Robert E. Lee

Ravensworth Virginia is in Annandale, maybe 10 miles from Arlington where Robert E. Lee once lived.  

Slave Documents

There are actually some slave documents from Kentucky with First Issue (1862 - ) adhesive revenue stamps on them.  A friend of mine has one or two.  As I understand it, so long as Kentucky remained part of the Union the Emancipation Proclamation didn't apply to it.

Slave Document

and here is a better scan of the entire document (the embossed stamp is in the upper left corner)

Slave Document

Hi John -
actually the document does have an embossed 50¢ first federal issue revenue.  Attached is higher resolution scan of the stamp

Slave Letters and Documents

Thanks to everyone for their very informative posts.

David, that is a great document. Fiscal collectors will bemoan that it "doesn't have stamps on it" but it is a great item.

Scott T - that is a wonderful cover. Again, under-appreciated as carried outside the mails. I'd encourage you to do a one-framer.

Roger R

This is great! Now we have the first step for calibrating quantitative analysis tools to test whether they can reflect what was actually used.

It would be even better if we could get the original formulae for each of the components. For example, The Pigment Compendium shows Turkey Red as composed of iron oxide and hydroxides; that comprisess several minerals. Similarly, Velvet Brown is supposedly a mixture of raw or burnt umber and dark ochre.

Scott #1

Roger -
You lucky dog, you!  There are supposedly 5 Schenectady covers with #1 and I have yet to see one of them.
Bob

Ink Composition

Roger R - Thanks for posting that. Now maybe I can find what I am remembering as handwritten - it must be in my Perry files .... I think it was is regarding the 2c Brown 1869 stamp.

Ink Compositions

Again I'm late. Elliott Perry wrote in his Pat Paragraphs of July, 1945, Section 45, pp1608-1611 on the compositons of the inks used in printing the 1869-70 stamps that he got from a reliable source who had access to the archives. Note I included the chemical compositons of the inks named.

Favorite Buy of 2011

Bit late on getting into this, but this is the only reported Scott #1 on cover from Painesville, OH, very near to my home and east of Cleveland.

Thank you, Richard.

Destination

Ravenna, Portage Co, Ohio

Assistance, Please

Can one of our postal history experts decipher the destination of this cover?

More about Robert E. Lee

The "Daniel" on the Robert E. Lee cover is Daniel Dotson, his carriage driver. The following info comes from www.nps.gov/arho/historyculture/slavery.htm

"Some slaves had very close relationships with the Lee and Custis members, though these relationships were very much governed by the racial hierarchy which existed between the slaves and slaveholders. Mr. Custis relied heavily on his carriage driver, Daniel Dotson, and Mrs. Lee had a very personal relationship with the head housekeeper, Selina Gray. As Mary's arthritis increasingly restricted her activities through the years, she depended on Selina for assistance with basic tasks. A reflection of their relationship, Mrs. Lee entrusted Selina with the keys to the plantation at the time of the Lees' evacuation from Arlington in May 1861."

This is the kind of information now easily accessible on the internet which really makes the history of a cover come alive.

Rats

Yesterday I spent $500 to fix the damage done when New York City rats decided to make a nest in the wiring harness of my car. Apparently they are attracted to the warmth of a car battery.

In honor of the remarkably resourceful Rattus Norvegicus, I show a page from my collection "Twisted Mind".

Slave Letters

I do not have slave letters, but I do have a collection of slave-carried covers.

These are typically out-of-the-mails folded letters or covers with endorsements, such as "Per boy [name]" or "With Jesse and a mule" etc

My best is a cover addressed by Robert E. Lee and endorsed "By Daniel".

These are scarce. I hope one day to put together a one-frame exhibit with contemporary photographs of slaves and historical background. Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation celebrates its 150th birthday next year, so it seems timely to show some postal artifacts from the era.

New Vermont items

I have added three new Vermont items: two emergency straightlines from the early 1900s and an unusual "unofficial" station from 1912. Glenn Estus

Slavery Documents

Evidence of slavery can also be found in fiscal philately. The bottom document on this page is a 1799 estate inventory from South Carolina. The federal tax of 50¢ paid by a first federal issue embossed revenue. The inventory included:
1 Negro Man Adam                                       $400
do. Woman Hannah                                      $250 
Sylvia + 2 Children Peter + Jack                   $550
 Milley + 2 Children Moses + Jeney              $600
Judy + 4 Childn, Sam Tom Fany + Patience $1,000. 

well over half the value of the estate was the value of the slaves. 

Slavery

John S.

Jane's recommendation touches on your interest as the title "The Book of Negros" was an actual list of slaves allowed to flee the US to Canada, and tells their story. Another excellent book is I've got a Home in Glory Land which documents slaves escaping to Canada via the Underground Railroad. Link is here.

I've seen one Canadian letter written by an ex-slave but missed out buying it by one day. In the Steinhart sale of Canadian postal history there was an advertising cover for Harriet Beecher Stowe's book Uncle Tom's Cabin. The Reverend Josiah Hanson was reportedly the inspiration for the book. The website for his home in Canada is here.

Canada issued a stamp to honour him. Link is  here.

Upper Canada (present day Ontario) abolished slavery in 1793. Lower Canada in 1803 (present day Quebec), making Canada an obvious destination for slaves.

Bill

John Shepherd 

Not letters but an historical document - there is a wonderful fictionalized account of the Book of Negroes (wiki link) written by Lawrence Hill called The Book of Negroes - the title was changed for the US market to Someone Knows My Name.

Slave Letters

Ken L - many thanks. I've just ordered the book, plus The Classic Slave Narratives by Gates. This is such a fascinating area, more interesting than some old postmark.

I would have thought letters from slaves written after their servitude had expired would be desirable also (though maybe not as quite desirable), but difficult to identify as written by former slaves. I guess though with low literacy rates such letters would not be common either.

I recall that the slavery "advertising" cover went for big bucks from memory.

Slave Letters

There are very few slave letters, if you mean letters written by slaves during slavery, and nearly all are in archives. The best book on the subject, which reproduced many of the letters, is Blacks in Bondage by Bob Starobin, who committed suicide in 1971, just as I was beginning my own work on slavery, publishing the narratives of ex-slaves collected in the 1930s. In all my years as a collector, I have collected only one such letter, written by an abolitionist amanuensis to the Union provost for the Natchez district, in which an escaped slave sought information about the sister he had left behind.

Slave letters

I was wondering whether anyone had ever done an exhibit of letters written by slaves, from a philatelic and/or social philately perspective. Or is that impossible as what is known is held by institutions?

There are many written (and published) slave narratives, but my query really is around original letters.

Antonius V.

Ton,
a very useful site, many thanks for the link!

Literature Question

I have send Rob a personal email but thought other members could also be interested in the DASV Postal Treaties Project at: http://www.dasv-postgeschichte.de/pv/pv_show.asp Many international postal treaties are on this site. Succes, Ton

1792 Postal Rates

Richard - Thank you for the information - much appreciated. Nothing beats finding the original source material in its entirety. That is most generous of you to share it with the world.

British Postal History Bibliography

Rob F.

as Richard does not have an attachment facility on his email link I post the bibliography here for all to see.

Books on Mails from UK

Rob F.

For the period you are interested in a good resource is Jane & Michael Moubray's "British Letter Mail to Overseas Destinations 1840 - 1875". published 1992 by the Royal Philatelic Society London. It is now rather an expensive investment but pretty much the definitive work on rates from (and too) the UK from the rest of the world.

As far as British PO related acts and instructions go you really should try and get hold of M.M. Raguin's "British Post Office Notices 1666 - 1899 Volume 5" self published 1991 as it gives you a background as to what was happening up to 1859. Unfotunately although he prepared a manuscript for the 1860 to 1899 period it never got published.

There are a large number of works on the British PO, I will email you a bibliography that I published in my "Letter Receivers of London" book which might at least point you in the right direction.

Literature Question

John B
Thank you for the response.  I do have each of the Winter books.  I believe I am in pretty good shape for postal history resources that focus around the US side of things.  Winter's (and Hubbard's) work has been tremendously valuable to me.  Starnes, Arnell, some PL&R for the period (Wierenga), Reports of the PMG (4 yrs so far) are in my possession as well.  I find tidbits in Appletons 1863, Norona, etc etc.

So, while I have limited my scope, I am surprised by how far afield some of the reading gets. 

The two books you mentioned at the end sound like a start for me on the British perspective of mails during the period I study.  I'm trying to get away from a purely US centric view of these mails since they clearly only made part of their journey under their jurisdiction.

I have resources to get the basic tracking of a cover from US to UK.  But, I'm short of resources to help me if it moves on beyond the UK. 

Best, Rob

1792 Postal rates

David - You can go straight to the source documents I have on my site here. I have never seen an example of the 8c packet rate and it may not have been implemented.

1792 ship letter postal rates

Matthew L.: Thank you for the information - much appreciated. I have updated my description of the cover. I re-read the U.S. Rates of Postage section in Postal Markings of Boston by Blake and Davis and now see how you obtained the four-cent ship letter rate during that time period.

Now, I just read the postage rates section in the American Stampless Cover Catalog and see that according to the Act of 1792, if the letter was delivered by a U.S. Government Packet Boat, to, from or intra-U.S. there was a 8 cents per sheet fee. Are there covers known using that rate? What reference books would describe such covers? I wish to learn more about the subject. Thank you.